ID of unique Torba - Pro level

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I am looking for some help ID’ing this large torba that I believe is from the southern Iran area. Any assistance would be appreciated!

size: 5’3” x 2’7”
upper left hand corner still has a small unmarked export lead seal connected by a wire. The Torba still has the backing on it.



Joe Lawrence

[Dinie Gootjes Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dinie Gootjes]

Hi Ortali,

This design is usually associated with the Khamseh from SW Persia. The low, wide torba format is unusual. You see it mostly as a more square khorjin. Here are a few I plucked from the internet years ago.

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Thank you! Nice pieces.

[PaulSmith Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PaulSmith]

What color are the wefts? Can you show a closeup of the back of the weave? That is essential if you want an ID.

[patrick weiler Member Find all posts View Profile Close patrick weiler]

This is what is called a rakat. Here is a post from a while back: http://www.turkotek.com/salon_00136/s136_t3.htm

[Dinie Gootjes Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dinie Gootjes]

Hi Ortali,

Seeing the thread about the rakat, I would certainly support Paul's request for more information about the wefts, and close ups of the back and the front, also of the strip below the lower border. That might indicate whether the piece is what the design seems to indicate, Khamseh, or whether it is Afshar. A very interesting piece!

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I will post pics soon. I appreciate everyone’s input.

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Sorry for the delay. I finally took it down and did some major cleaning in it. Here are the pics and hopefully they are helpful.

[Dinie Gootjes Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dinie Gootjes]

Thank you for the new pictures. I did not realize it was a flatweave, and I am out of my depth here. I am sorry.

[PaulSmith Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PaulSmith]

Well, it does appear to be Afshar, IMO. And I think it must be early 20th c., because the "hot" orange (which I believe to be a synthetic) is a distinctive color for South Persian weaving in that time period. Other colors appear to have faded a bit on the front, but I think in this case it is sun-fading, compared to the chemical treatment in that Ersari ensi you posted.

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Thank you Paul for your thoughts. Good point in the hot orange.

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Does anyone know how the top loops work to close the bag? Is there a missing rope? The loops are to far apart to intersect like on some pieces. I have looked in my books and online and cannot find an example of how it worked.

[Dinie Gootjes Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dinie Gootjes]

It looks to me that the loops are long enough to do it the usual way? Starting at left, you would pull loop #2 through loop #1, then loop #3 through loop #2 etc. You would secure the last loop with the little cords on the right. Doesn't it work that way?

Dinie

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Thanks for the tip. They do work like that until about half way through then it starts to get short. The loops are made from goat hair and may have shrunk over the years.

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Also, if anyone knows the name of the border weave, I am redoing the tattered right side and cannot figure out how this weave was done. There are 4 whites and 4 browns that intersect at the middle. If someone has a name of it, I may find it online. Thanks!