Depressed knots question

[Phil Smythe Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil Smythe]

I wonder if someone would care to give me a clarification with regards which is the ‘depressed warp’ please.

That is, on studying a drawing/s in M Mallett's book with with regards asymmetric knots - although it doesn't specifically state so in words – I had assumed visually it was the warp with the open side of the knot (see top drawing below) as that seems to be the wrap pushed (depressed) away from the weaver.

However, in another diagram found elsewhere – where it does actually specify in writing which warp is depressed – it states it is the warp on the enclosed side of the knot that is depressed (see bottom below). Is that correct?

If so, which then is the depressed warp in Mallett's example? The open or the enclosed warp? (I still think the open, but I stand to be corrected.)

Thanks in advance for any input.

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi Phil,

Yes. And, no.

This, because it depends on whether you're looking at the front or the back of the rug.

Looking from the front, as in the drawings, the warps on the open (left) side of the knot are depressed in that they are more distant from the weaver.

But.

Conversations about warp depression almost always refer to the back of the finished piece because the knot nodes are obscured by the wool tufts on the front side , so depression can't be seen unless one folds back the rug to expose the nodes.

The second drawing conveys the situation a little more clearly because it shows both the tight and loose weft tension., which is the source of the depression.

I'm sure there are a few discussions on the topic within the archives, but the notion is straight-forward to judge.

From the back:

No depression, both nodes are at the same level and clearly visible, back is flat
Moderate depression, both are still visible but one is clearly rotated down toward the front of the rug, and the back has a mild ribbed look and feel
Strong depression, both still visible but one rotated so far that it is barely visible, and the back has a distinct ribbed look and feel
Severe depresseion, only one node is visible because the depressed one is literally beneath the visible one., back is flat

Cheers
Chuck

[Phil Smythe Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil Smythe]

Thanks for you input Chuck!

Conversations about warp depression almost always refer to the back of the finished piece because the knot nodes are obscured by the wool tufts on the front side , so depression can't be seen unless one folds back the rug to expose the nodes.

So, when talking about ‘warp depression’, rather than referring to the warp the weaver actually depressed (away from the weaver), we refer to the warp that is visually furthest away from the viewer on the back of a carpet (which in reality is the opposite to that which the weaver actually depressed).

Is this the ‘standard’ in the trade then?

If so I find that rather ‘intriguing’ given we use the weavers viewpoint as it were to classify the knot type (S, ASL, ASR), but then change to the ‘viewers viewpoint’ of the back of a rug to specify which warp we call ‘depressed’.

Or am I missing something here?

Cheers, Phil

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi Phil,

I'm unaware of a "standard" in the trade on this topic. As far as I know it's simply pragmatic.

I have never seen anyone try to use which (the left, or the right) warp is depressed as an additional tool for attribution, and I can't think of any other reason to consider it in analysis.

In any discussion I have been in, or read, it's either: depressed or not depressed, and if so, by how much.

I think it's as much about symmetry and how that works into the final presentation.

Fully depressed results in one visible color node per knot, yielding a 1:1 horizontal to vertical aspect ratio. No depression yields a 2:1 aspect ratio.

Some weaving groups embraced the 1:1 approach. It's the more expensive route because it requires more wool to fill out the pattern.

I think it's as simple as that.

Regards
Chuck

[Phil Smythe Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil Smythe]

Thanks for the feedback Chuck.