perhaps a tekke chuval

[John Carpenter Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close John Carpenter]

The photo is of what may be a Tekke chuval because it has asymmetrical knots open to the right. Its dimensions are 41 inches by 67 inches. The knot count varies but is pretty much around 120 per sq. in. It has a floppy handle, though the knots are very neat and tight. The guls in this chuval seem to me to be variants of what some scholars call the archetypal gul used by both the Tekke and the Yomut peoples. ( See Mackie and Thompson's Turkmen.) If you study these guls a bit, you will notice that the little squares which seem to float free in the quadrants of the archetypal guls shown in many rug books look more like little flags in my chuval because they are anchored to the rest of the gul by a little pole. The weaver must have wanted to get this detail right because she missed doing it only once. I dwell on it because it may help with dating and identifying the area where the chuval was woven. There are quite a few details of this chuval which fascinate me because they suggest that the weaver was both adhering to tradition while at the same time giving tweaks to the chuval's design. You may be able to show me that this chuval isn't much of an outlier, and that would be a welcome piece of information as well. If you request more photos I can send them.

Best Regards,
John Carpenter

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi John

I don't think the dimensions or the palette suggest Tekke or Yomud, assuming the colors on my monitor are more or less accurate. My guess would be that it was woven in one of the Ersari groups. The dimensions and the asymmetric knots open to the right are what lead me in that direction. It certainly looks to be 19th century to me. Very handsome piece,

Steve Price

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi John,

The first question that comes to mind is, are you confident in your open-right assessment of the knots ? If so, then I would say this ia a Middle Amu Darya piece, most likely Kizl Ayak. I have a chuval with a very similar design, but it is open left.

A discussion with Peter Poullada (a member of the San Francisco Bay Rug Society and student of MAD work) on a related topic: works of the Ali Eli Turkmen, led to an exchange of images and structural characteristics that settled in on a Lebab (lebab = along the river) Saryk origin for mine.

Peter wrote an article in Hali, Issue 148, Sept-Oct 2006 entitled Kizl Ayak and Ali Eli Chuvals: Turkmen Weavings of the Middle Amu Darya. In the article he describes Kizl Ayak and Ali Eli work in great detail. If you can get hold of a copy you'll find it quite instructive.

The chemche guls on both your and mine have extra diagonal elements that are rather rare among Turkmen chuvals, but less so in MAD Turkmen work. I have a few with this more complex gul, two are Ali Eli. It turned out that, separately, Yon Bard of the New England Rug Society has been collecting chuvals with this complex chemche gul for some time. He refers to them as the "super" chemche guls. I don't know if he's written anything up on them. I know he did a presentation at a NERS meeting a while back on this topic.

For me it's another indicator of likely MAD origin. The other motifs and borders on yours are a very good fit with MAD Kizl Ayak as well.

A few images of mine below. I agree with Steve on the 19th century timing. And please do post a few - bigger- images !

Regards
Chuck

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Very nice explanation Chuck. I am a bit confused about the piece being open to the right. I thought most Turkmen pieces open to the right while Turkey for example was open to the left?

I opened up Hali issue 148 and must say the article is surprisingly long with many clear color examples.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Joe

Knot type is an important criterion for attribution within the Turkmen tribal groups. Yomud and Saryk pieces are almost exclusively symmetric. Tekke and Ersari (that term may be obsolete - it's now MAD) almost exclusively asymmetric open right. Salor almost exclusively asymmetric open left.

Beyond Turkmen, the symmetric knot is also called the Turkish knot; asymmetric knots are also called Persian knots.

Best

Steve Price

[Guest Close Guest]

Hi Steve and Hi Chuck,

Thank you both for your kind and instructive replies. As far as I can determine both of you nailed things down as far as identification of my chuval is concerned. I now understand that it probably has a MAD Kizl Ayak origin.

Chuck, I will send more detailed photos. But for now, I will stand by my description of the chuval's knots as asymmetrical and open to the right. Your photos are useful toward helping me make that tentative determination.

Best Regards,
John

[John Carpenter Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close John Carpenter]

Hi Steve and Chuck,

Thank you both for your kind and instructive comments. I think both of you nailed down the identification of my chuval as originating from the Middle Amu Darya and the Kizl Ayak. I hadn't known that "Ersari" isn't much used as a term of attribution any more. But it makes sense in the light of some of my reading.

I am still persuaded that the knots in this chuval are asymmetrical and open to the right. However, Chuck, I will post more and bigger images. I am definitely not a Turkmen weaving expert.

Best Regards,
John

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Here is a good read that covers MAD among other topics.

https://rjohnhowe.wordpress.com/2017...1-the-lecture/

[John Carpenter Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close John Carpenter]

Hi Steve and Greg,

Here are some detailed photos of the chuval we have been discussing: