Flatweave Yomut Torba?

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I found this today for sale in Ankara, Türkiye. I have bought from the seller in the past and was shown this. The seller described it as a very old Yomut Torba. I have never seen one like this before. Any thoughts? I haven’t bought it yet until I can do some further research. From my limited flatweave knowledge of Yomut bags, it appears legit.

[PaulSmith Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PaulSmith]

Hi Joe,

That looks like a fine piece with some age, whoever wove it. Nice to see the face in good condition like that. Is there some silk in it? I have seen that field/border pattern on bags attributed to the Ersari (the yellow color may also point in that direction, not sure), but I am pretty tentative about attributing flatwoven bags, myself. I have this flatwoven torba that I attributed to the Yomut on the basis of the colors and field elements, but I'm not sure.



Although... I attributed the khorjin set below to the Yomut on the basis of design and color, and was told in no uncertain terms that it is Göklen, and that they would be deeply annoyed that I attributed their work to the Yomut. Mea culpa, mea culpa...




Regards,

Paul

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Thank you Paul. You have some nice examples!

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi Joe,

These pieces come with a variety of flavors and toppings, but to the best of my knowledge, anything definitive about their origin remains elusive.

There is little in the literature that I have about origin, indeed, only one example (in Uwe Jourdan's book on Turkman Rugs) which is attributed as Ersari - with references to Ersari pile pieces with similar patterns.

We've had a few chats about them; here are two links to old threads:

http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00007/discussion.htm


http://www.turkotek.com/mini_salon_00027/ms27_t8.htm

We have several such pieces, and I have differentiated the attributions based on the criteria described below. Still, I have little confidence that I am correct, and it's just asking for some other member to haul out some documented examples and prove me wrong at times like this. Which, btw, would make me happy, provided the criteria are accounted for in the evidence. Anyway, here goes.

I consider this first one to be Tekke because of the palette, the silk, and the upper edge motif, both of which are common on Tekke embroidered small bags, purses, sheaths, etc. But especially, the palette and the silk:






I think this next piece is Alieli Turkmen; it's the small hatchet motif along the edges that are the critical evidence. They appear in a photo of a pile chuval from inside an Alieli yurt in Mackie & Thompson's book: Turkmen. And, on a big Alieli chuval that we have (last image):










These next two I consider Yomud mostly because of the cotton, the palette, and the fact that someone else showed me a similar piece and said they thought it was Yomud. That said the motifs on the sides look like they're Baluch, or from Veramin, neither of which would make any sense at all.










That's my two cents worth.

Regards
Chuck

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Great information! Thank you Chuck.