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Is it possible from just looking at the front of this bag to tell whether it is of Turkmen or Baluch origin? If so which is it? Size is about 18" x 20".
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My guess is that it's Afghan. The colors are wrong for Belouch and the main motifs (in the four squares) aren't traditional Turkmen. If the warps are gray, that would strengthen my guess.
Steve Price -
Hi Phil,
The motifs on this piece (and in particular the "S" with the small bars) are typical of production from the Kizlayak clan living in the region of Sheberghan in northern Afghanistan.
Regards
ChuckComment
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Thankyou gents for the input.
Steve, not sure about the warps as don't have the bag in hand. When you say 'Afghan' though, do you have a tribe in mind of just 'made in Afghanistan'?
Chuck, have seen that "s" on some carpets that were attributed just to "Turkmen" (a rather broad association I realise). So is that "s" something associated with Kizlayak weavings in particular, or....?Comment
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Hi Phil
By "Afghan", I just mean descendants of tribal people who live in Afghanistan. They may or may not still live as tribes. That "S" border and the one just inside it are both used by Belouch and Turkmen weavers, but the four big motifs in the center aren't.
Steve PriceComment
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The 8 sided star looks very Turkish.Joe LawrenceComment
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Hi Joe
The palette is very much Turkmen and Afghan Belouch. The closure system occurs almost exclusively on Turkmen and Afghan bags. As far as I know, it's never on Turkish khorjin. If you can get your hands on a copy of Tanavoli's KHORJIN I think you'll find it very enlightening.
Steve PriceComment
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Phil,
Here's a prayer rug from Jangl Areq in north Afghanistan, northeast of Sheberghan and outside of Aq Chah. It is another locale for moden Afghan Kizl Ayak work.
Note the same "S" motif (sometimes bi-colored), with small bars (each sometimes terminated with a small diamond or arrow) protruding from each, and and different from most of the "S" motifs typically used in Baluch work.
Regards
Chuck
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Thanks for the education gents!Comment
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Dear all,
Here's another possible representative of the genre. I was glad to get a confirmation to my Kizl Ayak identification(?):
MikkoLast edited by Mikko Saikku; 05-04-2023, 09:20 PM.Comment
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Hi Mikko
I don't see specific motifs pointing toward an Afghan Kizl Ayak attribution on your piece. The reciprocal "S"-like border on yours is more typical of northwestern Afghan Turkmen and Baluch work. The inner and outer guard borders are common on both north Afghan and Baluch work. The central guls are highly generalized versions of older Ersari fil-pai guls. The finish work on the kilim ends is seen on Afghan Turkmen work. To my eye, the palette and overall appearance points toward undifferentiated north Afghan Turkman. It seems to me to be a more recent piece, 1950's maybe, and somewhat distant from tribe- or locale- specific charcteristics.
Regards
ChuckComment
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Hi Chuck,
And thank you--I stand corrected! Went back to R.D. Parsons' book and agree with your attribution. Picked it up for peanuts some 15 years ago. It has served well as a floor covering in my office--many a student has wiped his/her feet on it during office hours...
Best,
MikkoComment
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Hi Mikko
When Dick was still with us, he reviewed & commented on some of my Afghan rugs & bags.
The best he could do with this one is, a 1950-1960's piece, undifferentiated Afghan Turkmen...
It also has some Baluch-like features., as well as obvious Turkmen motifs.
Indeed, he even has a "Baluch-like" section in his book.
After World War II, designs quickly drifted from the old traditions in Afghanistan, and they really went off the rails after the Russians wrecked the place..
Regards
Chuck
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Hi Chuck,
It is enjoyable to try to make some sense of the ubiquitous "mid-20th century red Afghan main carpets" by using Parsons's The Carpets of Afghanistan...
Best,
MikkoComment
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