Tekke Torba around 1780?

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Some time ago, I purchased this as a "Tekke Torba around 1780" on Ebay, largely on a whim:



Here it is on rugrabbit:

https://rugrabbit.com/node/222756

Obviously it is the ak-su pattern on it, but what more do you make of it? Is the dating likely to be correct?

Erik Persson

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi Erik,

We should all note that this piece is off the market so can be discussed (we never discuss pieces currently offered for sale); it is marked as sold on RugRabbit.

It may be that dyslexia played a part in the specification of the age of this piece.

1870 would be a more plausible date than 1780 and to my eye, with a palette and dyes as represented in these images (gray highlights rather than green) , more like early 1900's.

Regards
Chuck

[PaulSmith Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PaulSmith]

I agree with Chuck on the dating. No possibility of being 18th century, but late 19th c. seems reasonable.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Old or new, I find it attractive. The ak-su design is interesting. Ak-su translates as white or fresh water and is cited by some as a sign of the importance of fresh water to desert dwellers. But Ak-su is also the name of one of the last towns in China on the Silk Road, so the design might simply be identified with that town.

Steve Price

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you for the valuable comments! The dating of Turkoman items is somewhat mysterious to me, and I have not been able to find very much about this topic in the small collection of books on Turkoman carpets I have on my bookshelf. Do you have any literature suggestions?

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Erik - There are lots of opinions on this. Here are two URLs to start with:
1. Re: Dyes and dating Caucasian rugs (turkotek.com) If you read nothing else on the page, don't skip Tom Cole's words at its bottom.
2. TurkoTek Discussion Forums - The Dating Game, featuring "Baluch" rugs

Regards

Steve Price

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Steve, I have now read through the discussions at the two URLs you provided! The work of Jürg Rageth was mentioned several times there, and it appears that his two-volume work Turkmen Carpets: A New Perspective will be of some importance if you want to delve into the issues surrounding the dating of Turkmen carpets. PDF versions of the volumes can be freely downloaded here:

https://www.turkmencarpets.ch/

It is partly rather technical, but contains a lot of easily digestible stuff also and many nice and interesting pictures at that!