Steve Price

Hi Hakan

In reading your Salon essay, I'm struck by how similar the five Ketenli rugs you showed are to each other. Borders, basic field design, and colors vary relatively little among them. Is this generally the case for all (or most) Ketenli rugs, or are there other types that just weren't included? The Bozkir rugs in your essay are much more diverse.

Regards

Steve Price

Hakan Tazecan

dear Steve
the ketenli is a small province and mostly the pattern copies same design since centuries its like that its local language the rugs talks we need to know or learn their language Hakan

Ed Krayer

Dear Mr. Tazecan,

Your attribution of these yataks to Ketenli is quite interesting, and leads me to ask a couple of questions.

Since Ketenli is not a very large town, (I once enjoyed a picnic lunch with friends along the little mountain stream above nearby Dikilitas), might we not also find these very definitive, yatak field and border designs, with some variations, of course, within a wider area than you have suggested?

This example, currently in my collection, was originally described to me as a Derbent yatak, and I have since always thought it so. Derbent, as you know, is about 60 miles to the north of Ketenli.







Of course, in the rug trade, most of these pieces would simply be attributed to "Konya." Perhaps this is because attributions to smaller, more specific, villages in the Konya region do not hold equal name recognition to Konya, leading to less financial return. Or, perhaps, with the exception of the older, more experienced dealers, they simply do not know.

In your experience, Mr. Tazecan, would you expect to see this design from Derbent, as well? If so, might the central field variation be characteristic of those pieces from north of Ketenli? Would the structure be similar? I ask about structure because I have found that rugs attributed to Bozkir have different structure than rugs attributed to Konya - and Bozkir is so close.

I am grateful that your article defines more specific attributions to locations around the Konya plain - their "local language," as you say. Those who wish to learn more about these weavings, the Toros Mountain people who produced them, and the extraordinary beauty of this region of Turkey should take your advice and travel there. The flowers in the spring time are cok guzel - enfes!

Kind Regards,

Ed Krayer

Hakan Tazecan

Mr Krayer
thanks for your kind additions to my text l agree what you say about the similiraty of derbent yataks with Ketenli rugs and many time when brides marry from near towns they carry their motives to next towns but as you agree they are all konya style rugs

Joel Greifinger

Hi Hakan,

One thing that surprises me about the Yataks you've posted, particularly the ones from Ketenli, is how clear and distinct the patterns are despite the pile length averaging over 5 cm. In the few yataks I have seen up close with pile this long, the patterns seem less sharp and take on a certain vagueness. Ed's example is again quite dilineated but from the close-up it appears that the pile is substantially shorter than 5 cm.

Could you clarify whether the items you posted have pile this long and how clear their designs look up close?

Ed - If the pile on your piece is longer than it appears to me, could you possibly try posting a photo that gives a sense of its legnth?

Thanks for the interesting salon.

Joel Greifinger

Rich Larkin

Hi Hakan,

Thanks for this most interesting salon. One especially interesting aspect of the Ketenli rugs you have shown, and others too, is the extent to which many weavers executed the design in a very crude manner. Presumably, they were quite familiar with the traditional patterns of the area, yet they were content to render them often in an almost haphazard manner.

I often think that this approach to rug design was common among weavers in earlier times, when they were not weaving to a market standard. I do not necessarily think they were not weaving for commercial reasons at some level; but they were guided by a localized sense of what to do and how to do it. I am not sure this is true; but I imagine it is, and this relatively unspoiled indigenous approach to the weaving craft is something I look for and value. Of course, as you have explained in the salon essay, much of the weaving was strictly for local and family consumption.

I have a question about materials. You mentioned in a few instances that goat wool was used in some pieces. Could you comment on the tactile and other qualities of goat wool, and how you identify it when you find it?

Thanks and best regards.

Rich Larkin

Hakan Tazecan

l want to explain some tecnical points on yatak rugs. the photos you see on the web like 100-200 years old pieces. so they have been used many years since this years 5cm tickness of the pile come 3-4 cm tickness the other thing when they make a yatak rug weaver never cuts the knott with the scissor they live it as they make the knott. today we make reproduction yatak rugs the ticknes is like 4-5 cms always the turkish meaning for yatak is bed to slip on for that reason the rug must be tick pile that people can sleep on comfortable

Hakan Tazecan

Mr Larkin
most of the weavers of yatak style rugs they made them for their tents and houses they were nomads and the job was not a work shop only today they turn as a bussiness material the other point is although they look very similiar pieces but if you look carrefully the detail motives in the madayons you will see all the rugs diffirent . other thing toros mountains fameous with with their goats and dont forget Angora goats they come from Ankara and Konya region their wool wordwide fameous they sometimes use goat wool as warp and weft or like in konya tülüs they mix it in fiber coctail or like in filikli tülüs like in karapınar they use it as knotts but for comfort sheep wool is better when you sit on a goat wool rug it itches

Patrick Weiler

Ed,

You noted:
"Of course, in the rug trade, most of these pieces would simply be attributed to "Konya." Perhaps this is because attributions to smaller, more specific, villages in the Konya region do not hold equal name recognition to Konya, leading to less financial return. Or, perhaps, with the exception of the older, more experienced dealers, they simply do not know."
There also may be the view of the dealers that the less specific they are about the sources of their pieces, the less competition they will have for these rugs and kilims. Additionally, there is the situation common in Iran and elsewhere for weavings from around a large region which are all labeled by the collection center, such as Hamadan.
The only large Turkish kilim that was in my collection for a short time was an Aydinli kilim around 10' long and in two pieces. It was quite a dramatic piece, but with some repairs which used synthetic dyes that bled. One reason I did not keep it was that it was not a Konya kilim, therefore it was not as "good" as a Konya kilim. Hindsight has been kicking me in the rear ever since.

Patrick Weiler

Ed Krayer

Dear Patrick,

There is truth in what you describe about dealers hoping to protect their sources and in the use of collection centers, or larger cities where they might have entered the market, as a means of naming them. In my own experience, old, really interesting pieces are most always discovered by traveling pickers who waste little time finding a dealer to whom they can sell the piece. These pickers know which dealers have the capital to make a quick purchase, and which ones pay the best, so they will often travel long distances (in this case, throughout Anatolia) to sell what they have found. Thus, it is usually the individual picker, himself, whose identity is protected, or never disclosed, by the dealer, rather than the birthplace of the weaving. Perhaps we are saying the same thing in different ways.

One interesting development is the growing use of cell phone cameras by the pickers. I have seen dealers in larger cities (Konya, Antalya, Istanbul, etc.) negotiate for pieces, found by the pickers in far-off, Turkish, private homes, or even in other countries, after receiving images of them on their cell phones!

How did you arrive at the attribution of Aydinli for the kilim that got away? It's a pretty small place. I doubt there is a stop-light in town!

Kind Regards,

Ed Krayer