How can anyone tell if it's a "good" rug.

Jerry had one already: Scratching the pile with your nail. If wool fibers are collected easy, imagine what the "Nikes" will do to the rug.

Here's another: Spit on the rug! Soak the pile a little by rubbing your fingertip true it. Put your nose in and smell. If it smells like when you've just cleaned the toilet, something is wrong. (Yes, buying rugs is hard, messy labor, but tasting wine is more messy)

Put the rug on the floor. Get your fist on it and turn it under heavy pressure. The pressure will change the look of the pile. Does the wool get back to it's original position or do you have to help the piles back in position one by one.

Get a hold on the fringe. Pull. Does it stay the same or does it change. If it tears apart, there's a problem.

Fold over the rug in the length. Get the top corners exactly in the same position. If at the other side, the corners do not fit, the rug isn't square. Can be a reason for questioning the way it has been produced. Careless production.

Look at the back of the rug. If it shows "lazy lines" and it's a knotted rug, tells you something about the working conditions. Some weavers are being paid by the knot. Lazy lines will in the long run damage the squareness of the rug.
(Lazy lines are the spots where the weavers did meet with the wefts and turned back with the same weft. They can't meet in a straight, vertical line because then the rug would split)

Folding over a corner of the rug. (This is forbidden to do with very old rugs) If the rug slaps you in the face when you let the corner loose, it may have had a stiffening treatment (apres) at the backside.

Well, now I've done it. I will be banned by all who are bound to the oath.

Maybe others have more examples?

Best regards,
Vincent

Thanks for correcting me. I didn't know that. But, on the other hand, new Turkish, bleached "kazaks" show lazy lines and the average consumer should know what he's dealing with.
Think in the older rugs it was used because the lazy lines help a rug to ly flat, no bubbles because less stress. Can be seen in kilims to, but then I do not mind it. Strange...isn't it?

Best regards,
Vincent

I was at an antique rug store when another dealer came in looking to buy some rugs. He was inspecting an old rug with silk warps. He grabbed hold of a warp and yanked it off! He said you could tell if it was an old silk rug because the warps were more brittle and would break off.
I think the store owner was a bit startled and upset. The other dealer did not buy the newly warpless rug.
Is there any truth to this? Even if it is true, is there any reason for doing this?

Patrick Weiler

Hi Patrick,
Old silk tends to get brittle, but if it's a well-cared for rug, it should not get that way. Wool can acquire dry-rot and do the same thing. As to the "dealer/buyer" doing that without telling the seller is just another example of the negative image some rug dealers (Vincent excluded) project.
Best regards,
Marvin

And the guy left the shop alive?
Think if this happens to me, I'll make him eat it, hoping a lot of hocus-pocus is in the silk.

Fringed regards,
Fringent.

There is another context in which "lazy lines" in a rug are seen as a likely positive feature.

The Navajo rug literature often speaks positively of "lazy lines." Here is one author: "...'Lazy lines' are commonly found in excellent (ed. Navajo) weaves. These diagonal lines in the material occur where the weaver stacked several inches of weft. The lines are considered to be normal..."

In fact, lazy lines in Navajo weaving can be seen as a sign of care, since they occur as the result of a weaver's efforts to make things "even."

Some books even suggest that the presence of lazy lines may be a good reason for believing a rug from the American Hispanic region is Navajo rather than Mexican.

Apparently, Mexican weavers less frequently used this mode of correction.

So "lazy lines" are not always seen as signs of poor quality, although this instance is far removed from the "oriental rug" context in which Vincent made his original comment in this thread.

Regards,

R. John Howe

Scratch the wool ?
What You learn from this is mainly how strong the yarn is spun. This is not a useful universal indicator. Yes, if You scratch out a lot from a new piece it shows that it will loose quite some material when used. But if You would do this with a perfect kept 150 year old Central Anatolian kilim (without use !) it would seem to be of low quality. The pieces that we handle today simply have left only 40-60% of its original wool and we are accustomed to the particular look it has then. Or take an antique "real" Gabbeh done with soft shiny wool.
For a high quality pile weave I propose another indicator. If the pile wool is not twisted, twisted twice, fourfold or even eightfold makes a big difference in the performance of a rug. But: the more it is twisted the more difficult it is to have a clear picture rendering in the new piece. And, as our customers and dealers have low understanding of quality, this would hinder the success of the very good piece.
However we move and turn the subject: more educated customer feed back is necessary.

Yours sincerely

Michael

We need help from reputable and knowledgeable dealers too. The dealer should present clearly the fact as you did: "This rug will cost you 1000 but it will improve with use and will last you for a lifetime and more. I guarantee it with my reputation. This one is a carpetoid, you can have it for 200 but in a relatively short time it will decay."
The customer should know what he buys. Switching from wine to food, one can compare carpetoids with fast food. The increasing success of fast food did not put out of business quality restaurants because they are simply different things - the customer knows the difference.
With rugs, it’s difficult to distinguish between carpetoids and the real ones, so the customer tends to go for the cheap option: he hopes to have a bargain and thus he avoids the risk of buying for 1000 something worth 200. Unless a respectable dealer assures him about the quality.
Labels? There are too many fakes around.
Regards,

Filiberto

Only seen lazy lines in bleached Turkish kazak rugs. Included is the glue at the back.
Poor quality wool does exist. Can't be twisted or it will break.

Shows, we already disagree about what should be on a label for a rug with lazy lines.

Best regards,
Vincent

Dear all,

for help - Filiberto, You are welcome. But let us discuss how it can be managed. I guess that people in the traditional rug countries are quite helpful these days because they have to fight against cheap copies of their style whereelse. One thing does not work, though: we often see guided tours. Here the quality of the guidance varies as much as the carpets on offer. The normal system is that the guiding firm gets commission from the shop where a particular piece is sold. This corrupts the judgement. You show to Your clients mainly those products where You earn Your share of the money, understandably.
A better way would be to work with people who know the backyard procedures but pay them as consultants that have to deliver the "brutal truth" - and leave it to the people then how they digest and apply this knowledge. Or to make seminaries - but these must be pre-paid. To deliver knowledge when the money is earned from selling the own merchandize is not a good idea.

Vincent, bleached Turkish kazak rugs are close to the bottom of what we talk about, yes ? Puh, and if they have glue on their back side - do not touch it with hands, use toys.
In this environment ("Turkish kazak rugs") these lazy lines are applied to add some drops of "authencity" to the merchandize.
These Caucasoids are made to substitute real Caucasian antique carpets that have been used up as floor covers. Do I realize it correct ? If yes let us look to the spectrum of it in present Turkey.
Unvariably they are done using ready designs (cottage industry, "production"). They must look "mellowed" to resemble antique carpets. A new carpet that looks like a 100-120 year old patinated
rug cannot be a good piece anyway ( I propose the term patinated: it aims at the damage the dyes have suffered from light oxidation ; "mellowing" sounds too positive for me though I recognize that and why some people like the effect).
For this reason one should not use natural dyes, as stated before. When these are patinated using heavy reducing (hydro sulphite) and oxidizing (chlorine) chemicals their fastness is broken. The Iranian pieces that You mentioned whose top 2-3 cm may be natural dyes, may be synthetic: they are already hurt and not safe.
Expertedly done chromium dyes ( ecologically of course class B, not sustainable, more or less dangerous for the people in charge under local conditions, but for this transition period affordable) plus synthetic Indigo would be the choice and certain mistakes on purpose during the dyeing process can supply the much wanted abrash (no later chemical wash necessary).
The habit of köklü boya must not be applied. Kök boya means the real natural dye - köklü means You apply a synthetic dye but as a kind of alibi You add one handful of milled madder root to the dye bath.
Then You can say: there is madder in it, indeed ! Useless, I would like to comment.
Wool and yarns: depend on the desired quality - and price ! The lowest quality done at present in Turkey
is mixed with the oil that You recover when the motor oil of cars is changed. This helps to stick the fine, short, often broken parts of the wool together and increase therefore the efficiency of the raw-wool-to-yarn transition. But the whole piece has a kind of grey-brownish cast then. One would need chemical wash - and then this wool is so dry and brittle that it never could be twisted strong. I agree.
The luxury end of this merchandize would be done using Kammgarn-combed wool (süme) and it would be spun by machine. To use hand spinning (attention: qualitywise the "real" hand spindle and the spinning wheel lead to different speed, labour efficiency, quality - and price) would bring the look closer to the original piece that will be substituted.
The finest merchandize of this type is done in Taskale and Karaman. 40v/32 h on machine-spun warps,
fine machine-spun wefts and machine-spun pile wool (not twisted) with established nuances of synthetic dyes are applied. The chemical wash that is usually done then I find unnecessary - as the "tea wash" which often follows that in order to camouflage the chemical wash.
At the bottom of this industry "kazak" designs melt into "Gabbeh" designs, both coarse in knot count
and wool quality, so intensive finishing is absolutely necessary to get the necessary look. The above mention fine qualiy (they call it "Shirvan" locally) does not need it.
Some 28/32 rugs of this type with hand spun wool come quite close to their originals (with chromium dyes ! Saturated natural dyes make no sense in this industry). Their performance depends totally on the details of their manufacture - and here I only believe what I can control.

Whether this kind of industry is applied in region where the original designs once came from or not does not improve/diminish the quality of these production rugs. At the very top end of this segment certain designs and colour combinations would look more "integrated" but I question how many people would recognize that. But in case one applies people who learned to work with wool new it makes a big difference in the technical performance of such a rug. Therefore a correct labelling is necessary.

Yours sincerely

Michael Bischof

You said, above, "certain mistakes on purpose during the dyeing process can supply the much wanted abrash (no later chemical wash necessary). " So, if I understand correctly, modern rugs presenting abrash (although artificial) should be free from chemical wash?
Regards,

Filiberto

Yours sincerely

Michael

What does sun-bleached mean to you.
I've seen strands of wool hanging in the open air bleaching in the sun.

If natural abrash is wanted, one could use darker/brown wool.

If the wool is handspun, it's likely to get an uneven tread, and if applied correctly one should get abrash.

If the wool strands are knotted loosely, some abrash should show up. This isn't a mistake, it's because it's wanted.

If two colors are twisted, abrash shows.

Could you tell me how, if the wool is applied as natural as it can be, the wool is washed, (because of the grease) before it goes in the dye solution? I understood the grease can be a problem in dying wool.

Did you contact your E.C. representative in this respect? Think if Turkey wants to be part of the E.C. this is the right time to act.

You and I are free to label rugs, making up contracts with clients etc. Don't think any law objects to this. As long as it doesn't interfere with basic ground rules and common sense.

Best regards,
Vincent

sun bleaching does not mean that wool hangs in the sun for some days to be dried after dyeing.
Sun bleaching in this business means to place ready weaves (newly made or "semi-old" one with harsh ugly synthetic dyes) for some weeks into the sun, at high altitudes in the mountains, so one gets a lot of photo-oxidation. By this process the dyes are attacked and partially destroyed, the harsh effect is mellowed, the dyes loose lustre and clarity of their nuances. The wool is considerably damaged. Such a piece seems to show "age", a kind of personal history is suggested, so it sells better. But it is a damage.

Good spinning does not result in unevenness and does not lead to abrash. Abrash is a mistake - but a wanted mistake, technically. That some of us learned to like it from viewing certain village rugs where abrash shows, enhanced by aging, is another thing and this preference a secondary habit. After we got acquainted with village rugs we tend to dislike big monochrome areas.
A technically safe method would be, for a green dye, to appy 80% of the dye straight and without abrash. When the dye is sufficiently saturated and in case one uses a yellow dye of good fastness may be 20%, on top, may be applied with this abrash on purpose.

If two colors are twisted the resulting picture (in German we call it "meliert") is more lively and this can be done without any limitation of the dye quality. The dyes may be saturated and without abrash.
Preparation of wool for dyeing is an art in itself. The principle is: the stronger the processes are the more the wool is damaged but the dye uptake enhanced. So the paramters of this preparation define the end quality of the wool ( and of the rug) to a significant extent.
From 1992-1995 I was engaged in a (German) government sponsored project in Karanman south of Konya and a that time I had frequent contacts with governmental development aid organizations. But these did not realize the importance of quality control for keeping traditional skills as a method to soften down the effect of "Landflucht" (people leave the country side to make their living in the huge suburbs of megalopolis type of cities). In the last years carpets are only a side effect thing for us as we worked more for the ecological optimization of natural dyeing processes - but for the garment industry. If You have good contracts let me know, please, as there is a lot to do for the regulating bodies.

Yours sincerely

Michael Bischof