TurkoTek Discussion Boards

Subject  :  Another Kyrghyz Rug.
Author  :  Filiberto_Boncompagni mailto:%20filibert@go.com.jo
Date  :  12-04-2001 on 02:16 a.m.
Dear John,

You show very interesting pieces in you Salon, thanks a lot.

At your request I have put up here some images sent to you by someone, who, while browsing the net, found another rug similar to Rug 3.

It was sold some time ago on a well-known web site that we should probably not mention here.

Here are the pictures:

The size is 9ft 9in by 4ft 4in.


Subject  :  Re:Another Kyrghyz Rug.
Author  :  R. John Howe mailto:%20rjhowe@erols.com
Date  :  12-04-2001 on 05:48 a.m.
Dear folks -

My thanks to Filiberto for getting the above message and images up.

The message above and a link to the images there were sent to me "out of the blue" by a Mr. Bob Kent.

As he noted, the similarity between this rug and Rug 3 in the salon is remarkable.

Here again is the image to Rug 3:

We have also been successful in contacting this similar rug's owner and he has agreed to post in this thread about his piece.

I should also take this opportunity to correct something I reported erroneously earlier about Rug 3. I included it in my listing to Vincent Keers of those pieces in Jim Blackmon's presentation that likely have the "symmetric knot on alternative raised warps" structure and, in fact, Blackmon says clearly, in the initial salon essay, that Rug 3 has a "classic" single-wefted Kyrghyz structure.

Some of us were impressed enough with Rug 3 to describe its drawing as "monumental" and it is rather amazing to encounter another rather quickly that seems so similar.

Our thanks to Mr. Kent for alertly bringing this piece to our attention.

Mark van Raaij, the owner of this other piece has agreed to comment further on it.

Our thanks to him,too, for being willing to do so.


R. John Howe

Subject  :  Re:Another Kyrghyz Rug.
Author  :  Guido Imbimbo mailto:%20miaom@pacific.net.sg
Date  :  12-04-2001 on 07:36 a.m.
Dear All,

this is another example of Rug 3 of John Howe Salon.

It was published on Hali Issue 33 pag. 104 and labeled Kirghiz Carpet, late 19th century (1.52x3.00m).
The caption says:
"This beautifully barbaric East Turkestan carpet was acquired in China in 1986 and is attributed to the Kirghiz tribe. Like many Ersari carpets it uses a Persian derived motif .... It has a surprisingly wide palette of rich colours, including undyed ivory wool and lovely blue green ... it is a splendid and dramatically attractive old carpet of a rare type".

How really old are these carpets?



Subject  :  Re:Another Kyrghyz Rug.
Author  :  bob kent mailto:%20bobkent10@yahoo.com
Date  :  12-04-2001 on 08:24 a.m.
Actually, once a picture of any rug is out there, I'd guess other ones will surface because pictures are so easy to remember, and there are many rug pictures.

story.... true story.... From research on learning words, psychologists once believed that memory was quite limited. Then one Laurel Standing got 20,000 pictures of different things (carrot, wheelbarrow, etc), showed 10,000 of them to people quickly, and tested by showing all 20,000 and asking for yes/no picture recognition... did you see this before? They knew, the study is called "learning 10,000 pictures." Fine and well, until some wise guy used your tax money to photograph 20,000 snowflakes... bob

Subject  :  Re:Another Kyrghyz Rug.
Author  :  Filiberto_Boncompagni mailto:%20filibert@go.com.jo
Date  :  12-04-2001 on 09:19 a.m.
Right, images are easy to remember. The difficult part is to remember where to retrieve them. By the way, Bob, thanks for the link..
These rugs have a lot in common. The size is more or less the same. They all have 9 rows of 4 "flaming" boteh. The boteh(s) of the first one are right-oriented, though.


Subject  :  Re:Another Kyrghyz Rug.
Author  :  Filiberto_Boncompagni mailto:%20filibert@go.com.jo
Date  :  12-04-2001 on 09:32 a.m.
My mistake,
The first rug has 10 rows of 4 boteh(s).

Subject  :  Re:Another Kyrghyz Rug.
Author  :  Mark van Raaij mailto:%20m.vanraaij@quicknet.nl
Date  :  12-05-2001 on 09:17 p.m.
I'm the owner of the Kirghiz carpet placed above by Filiberto. I was asked by R.John Howe to give some information on this carpet.
To give some information on the structure: the piece has the 'classic' single weft structure. The knots are asymmetric, open to the left. The pile is short. The warps are from brown (camel) hair as are the wefts,but more mixed with (camel) wool. It seems the browns in the piece are also camel wool. As the sides are almost intact it's maybe interesting to describe: the flat selvedges are made of 3 cables (two threads each) overbound with weft, the end finish is an one inch plainweave and the warps where twisted together,two groups forming one fringe with a knot at the plain weave side (length 14 inches). Most of the wear is on the centre of the field (low pile, foundation visible, old repiling). It seems this is an indication the carpet is used for sitting on it.
I like the colors on this Kirghiz. There are three reds ( one is a very light red used in the botehs), dark blue, light blue-green, yellow, olive-green, browns (camel) and white.
As mentioned before these pieces with boteh field are 'monumental'. As I'm very interested in ancient/universal motifs the most interesting aspect for me are the small minor ornaments: 8-figures (endless knots ?), an amulet, three camels and even a male person (see the pictures below). The camels are all in the centre of the field, the other minor ornaments at the left and right side of the field. If all this has a special meaning, who knows ?
I've also attached a picture of a reed screen in the same boteh design.

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