Thank you for the well presented information.

You wrote
"Some points to ponder: Why are floral motifs so rarely seen in Laotian T'ai textiles?"

I would like to suggest a reason. I believe the area under discussion is near equitorial rainforrest where flowers, whether trees in blossom or other plants, are to be found most if not all of the year. Real flowers could easily be had for decoration so there was less a need to create gardens in textiles. The use of a particular flower in a tropical or near tropical areas might well be for reasons associated with the particular flower. [I'm thinking of the lotus]

Semi arid or desert areas might produce a longing for water and plants which are seen in the textiles of the area. Long harsh winters might do the same.

Sincerely

Richard Farber

I think this is a good and plausible suggestion.

It could turn out, though, that it "cut's" the other way, since there seems also to be evidence that weavers often weave what they see around them. The "folk life" carpets produced by the Woven Legend weavers in Turkey when they were "turned loose" once is a recent instance. Early Afghan "war rugs" may be another. Lots of 19th century examples could likely be produced. Wedding processions, for example, appear on Yomud tent bands and asmalyks.

And Wendel Swan has argued effectively that a great deal of design in the Islamic rug producing countries is in fact essentially geometric and that we often incorrectly impose representation upon it.

But your idea makes a great deal of sense. The weaver in semi-desert might in fact have considerable motivation to create a garden.

Regards,

R. John Howe

Most of the Lao Tai weavings incorporate religious symbols, such as the man-spirit, naga snake, two-headed river dragon and the long nosed royal lion. Symbols representing authority and religion do not include much in the way of flowers. The lotus, integral to Buddhist iconography, might be one exception. "The Buddhist concepts of impermanence and non-sustantiality are reflected in the abstract and off-center designs" is how one reference described the textile designs
This might differ from the rugs we are used to which were more for household decorative use.

Patrick Weiler

I wonder whether the relative insignificance of floral motifs in southeast Asia is, like so many things in most societies, related to fertility.

Many of the motifs and symbols in tribal (and non tribal) societies are fertility related, because the fertility of the earth is of such obvious importance and that of the individual is usually related to his ability to survive beyond the working years. Flowers are not only beautiful, but are related to the fertility and annual rebirth of the earth. This, of course, is more true in parts of the world with very distinct seasons, less so in parts of the world where the earth is fertile all year round. That probably includes southeast Asia and much of subSaharan Africa, where floral motifs are also unimportant as iconographic elements.

Steve Price

The question was raised a while back as to why sheep are not readily found in weavings of sheep raising people . . . they are around all the time, are are not of special occasions as wedding camels in processions or the horse used in matchmaking or war.

Mr. Howe wrote

"It could turn out, though, that it "cut's" the other way, since there seems also to be evidence that weavers often weave what they see around them."

yes, but do they weave bowls of rice, gourds of milk, and hills of rock ? Wars, weddings, ritual horseback kidnappings, symbols of hospitality, and mystic or mythical symbols, not something so ubiquious as blossoms if they were around year round all around

Mr. Howe continued:
" The "folk life" carpets produced by the Woven Legend weavers in Turkey when they were "turned loose" once is a recent instance. Early Afghan "war rugs" may be another. Lots of 19th century examples could likely be produced. Wedding processions, for example, appear on Yomud tent bands and asmalyks.'

Steve the melon flowers of East Transoxanian embroidery come readily to mind.

Bye

Richard

"...the melon flowers of East Transoxanian embroidery come readily to mind."

Only on TurkoTek.

-Jerry-