Subject | : | Application to Piled Rugs |
Author | : | Marvin Amstey mailto:%20mamstey1@rochester.rr.com |
Date | : | 01-14-2001 on 03:28 p.m. |
I can appreciate what Ms. Wolf has stated and some of the few
scientific references she makes. However, the experience of many
collectors is that great rugs- classic 18th c. and earlier that were
exposed to everyday use and wear (e.g. the early Holbein rugs used as
table covers) - show very little evidence of color fade. In fact, it is
the stability of those colors that add to the rugs' greatness. I'm sure
all of us could find many examples of this long light exposure without
obvious color change. Certainly the Turkoman bag faces were exposed for
many years to bright sunlight. Maybe that enhanced the colors?! I would
appreciate any comment from Ms. Wolf about these points and pile rugs in
general. Thank you, Marvin |
Subject | : | Re:Application to Piled Rugs |
Author | : | Sara Wolf mailto:%20sjcenik@aol.com |
Date | : | 01-14-2001 on 04:39 p.m. |
One of the difficulties in speaking about older pieces is that we have
no idea what they originally looked like. More recent, analine-dyed pieces
often show fading that is easy for you to detect visually. It is not only
the color change that concerns the museum conservator, but the damage to
the fibers themselves. This is certainly much less visible, but takes its
toll over the long-term.
Perhaps another kind of recent example would help illustrate the point. Are you familiar with the DOBAG rugs from Turkey? Those are new production pieces that employ natural dyes. They are quite vivid because they are not treated with a chemical wash to "soften" or "age" their look. Compare those to a venerable rug, and you'll begin to have a feeling for the amount of change that really takes place. The "mellowness" of an older piece is some measure of its value, and that mellowing is a result of color change and fiber degradation. |
Subject | : | Re:Application to Piled Rugs |
Author | : | Patrick Weiler mailto:%20theweilers@home.com |
Date | : | 01-14-2001 on 07:58 p.m. |
Sara, Thank you for sharing your expertise in this area. It would be interesting to find a pair of bag faces that were "separated at birth", with one being stored away and the other displayed. It seems that the major research upon which the "standard" lighting
level is based on is over 20 years old, and is not specifically based on
oriental rugs. There have been advances in lighting technology in that
much time. Are you aware of any more recent studies done using the more
advanced lighting techniques? I believe that there are also new glass technologies that allow only
some wavelengths to pass through and when "switched on", allow more light
through. Kind of like "sun-sensor" sunglasses only more
advanced. This topic is not only of interest to museums, but also to the rug
collectors who like to have them scattered around for enjoyment, study and
decoration. Do you have any suggestions for us, other than to live like
moles? Patrick Weiler |
Subject | : | Re:Application to Piled Rugs |
Author | : | Leslie Orgel mailto:%20orgel@aim.salk.edu |
Date | : | 01-16-2001 on 01:10 p.m. |
Dear All
I once had the experience that Patrick speculates about. A specialist tribal rug dealer sent me this nineteenth century Afshar bag as a possible purchase.
He sent along for comparison a more recent and substantially less expensive example with exactly the same design. The more recent face had very harsh colors but was in perfect condition. The old piece showed considerable wear. I never questioned the relative dates, which I think might have passed as "last quarter of the nineteenth century" and "about 1920" in a typical dealers catalogue. Val Arbab, who has done a lot of restoration, happened to come by while I was looking at the two pieces. She said "Leslie, do you realize that these are the two faces of the same double bag?" The warps varied substantially in color across the width of the bags, and she had noticed that they lined up exactly. I do not know how they came to be in such different condition, but there is no question that she was right. Perhaps the most surprising thing is that I bought the damaged piece and sent back the one that was in perfect condition! How crazy can you get. Best wishes Leslie |
Subject | : | Re:Application to Piled Rugs |
Author | : | R. John Howe mailto:%20rjhowe@erols.com |
Date | : | 01-16-2001 on 03:48 p.m. |
Leslie -
A wonderful story! If it's "crazy," it's a group phenomenon, since you did what we'd nearly all likely have done. It also gives credence to Sara's original thought here that we really don't know what the weavings we collect looked like originally. Side by side we'd often not recognize that the one is the pair of the other. Regards, R. John Howe |
Subject | : | Re:Application to Piled Rugs |
Author | : | Sara Wolf mailto:%20sjcenik@aol.com |
Date | : | 01-18-2001 on 07:05 p.m. |
There is some research going on about lighting, and I understand that
the Getty is about to issue a draft new standards on museum environment in
the next year or so for review by conservators. There have been some
advances in lighting technology, and hopefully that will "shed some new
light" on the problem.
Even within the category of "oriental rugs" there is a wide variety of materials, dyes, etc., to consider for lighting. As an example, one might show a silk rug and a wool rug in the same gallery. The silk wil be substantially more susceptible to light deterioration than the wool. Ergo, you light for the silk, and the wool is "in the dark." It would be impossible to test every dye in every rug before an exhibition. We know that some dyes are more light-stable than others, but I repeat again, it's not just the dye that is the problem. What you don't see is the deterioration to the fiber itself. The lighting standards are an average. I just went to the Department of the Interior Museum this week to look at an exhibition featuring a Navajo rug with a sandpainting design. The gallery there had a visitor-sensitive light switch that turned on when you entered the gallery for that piece and a couple of others. It was very disconcerting to adjust back and forth between the displays that were lit full-time, and those where the lights went up and down. I'm sure this technology could be improved, but I personally hated it. |