Among the pieces that immediately caught our fancy was this Malatya prayer kilim from the 1950's.

It is wonderfully crooked and only loosely symmetrical. To us it looked like a figure lying in a meadow full of
flowers, The picture does not do justice to the brilliant cotton that makes up the white of the borders, nor does it entirely convey the colors, but every time we look at it we are cheered by its happy irregularity. Had it been perfect, it would have been beautiful, but boring. Instead, it is awkwardly cheerful and appealing and possesses its own special character. It was the best legacy that the weaver could have left, since it conveys her personality.

We have hung it upside down since we were told by various knowledgeable people in Turkey that it is the only respectful way to hang a prayer rug. We have an Obruk prayer kilim that even had loops on the end so that it would hang mihrab-down. I have not seen this custom written about, but it may explain why so many Ottoman prayer rugs were woven upside down, and may even be the reason that the lilies in the bottom of Ladik prayer rugs point down when the mihrab points up.

Best regards,

Ken Thompson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I, too, am often attracted to irregularity. So much so that I am likely soometimes a legitimate target for some who say that often irregularity is merely bad weaving.

I wonder if your piece here (I think the white borders do function well), since the "arch" portion is closed and pointed at the "bottom," might in fact be read as a series of diamonds of different sizes. That is, might it not have an intened "arch."

I find part of what's interesting to me about your piece is the fact that the diamonds are of different sizes. And since it is presented "up side down," and because the diamonds get smaller as they go along, it may be that the weaver's creativity was influenced by lack of warp length.

An interesting piece and a good story.

Regards,

R. John Howe

This prayer rug design is upside down. The keyhole, arch, niche is knotted at the bottom of the rug. So while knotting the rug, the animals are on their feet.

I have read that it's because it seems disrespectful to look into the pile while praying. Why? I do not know. And it doesn't explain the kilim upside down story.

And I'm not sure if I need to know. But it "feels" right. If this is the respectful way to show the prayer rugs, we just have to respect it. I wouldn't like the Christian cross upside down, because another culture doesn't respect, my western, Christian way of looking at things.

The way you handle the Malatya shows knowledge and respect. In this way the kilim can give "moments" of beauty, moments of....., moments of.......?

Best regards,

Vincent

I'm sorry, but I had to think about this for a moment.

John raised the question of lack of warp length. This kilim is a perfect example of elongation. The weaver started out at the bottom as the image shows. I learned from Marla, that the elongation aspect, is because of the curves, the bending, that the warps are allowed to make. If a weft is inserted, the warp, which is straight, is stressed by the weft to leave it's natural(straight) course. The tighter, more tensed the warp gets, the more difficult it is for the weaver to get in the weft, as closely packed as it may have been in the beginning. Elongation is the result. The weaver could decide to give the weft less tension, so it has to make a wider "s" like curve, around the warp, then the result would be: A very, bulging kilim. Would look nice on a sailing boat though.

In my view, a trained weaver, can decide wether he/she starts out elongated (more warp tension) or compressed (less warp tension).
Puts the old rugs, with the central medallion not in the center, in a different perspective.
Puts the Malatya in a different perspective, if it has been done, deliberately because it had a meaning in it's cultural environment. If I think I'm , technical, visual superior compared with the weaver: A lot of old, sloppy jobs around.

So, here's an other "moment" of pure beauty for me.

Best regards,
Vincent

Hope you do not think, all importers, wholesalers, agents, loom owners, have one general taste.
4 million looms in Iran + 5 million looms in India etc. I do not wish to count the looms in China. Think we can gather a total of 100 million people involved in the rugs. I do hope time will come I can say:
I bought this very expensive. I like it. I respect it, and know for sure 4 or 5 people have a living from it. And if you, Sam, want to buy it from me because you think it's the genuine item, I'll make you pay my pension. If you don't want to pay for my pension, you will never get the rug. It's as simple as that.

Best regards,
Vincent

And looking again, the fact that the smallest "diamond" is filled in as the other two are not and the additional one that none of the diamonds close fully,do perhaps combine to make plausible the notion that this was a "prayer" kilim.

Regards,

R. John Howe

I'm not polite.
I used to reason as you did, about the warp length. But it's just the other way around. If the warplengt is to short, the elongation starts to increase as the work progresses.
So you start "compressed" or normal as is expected. The further you weave, the warps get more tensed, so the warps tend to push your wefts "up" again. You can beat the wefts down again, but they will be pushed back, because of the warp tension.
If, in restoring a hole in a rug, you do not give the warps enough length, (more length then seems appropriate at the start), you'll have difficulty in getting in the wefts at the end of the job. At that point you'll be more stressed then the warps, and you'll have to smuggle your way out, or start all over again.

It was in one of the previous salons, about elongation etc., it struck me as strange that:
New rugs: Elongation starts in the first half.
But the knot count of the second half is less, so this is compression. (Time stress?)
Old rugs: Elongation starts at the second half. Same knot count. Warp length problems? Intended?

Best regards,
Vincent

I can't really tell whether you two are just engaging in banter or are seriously entering the early stages of the process leading to the exchange of Vincent's rug for Sam's money. This is simply a reminder to read the paragraph atop the discussion board pages about what we do and don't do in this venue.

No offense intended, and I'm not even sure that there's any cause for concern on my part.

Regards,

Steve Price