| Subject | : | Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | R. John Howe |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 07:55 a.m. |
| Dear folks - Wendel places natural dyes fairly highly in his collecting criteria. He will reject pieces that most of us might consider seriously if he can detect a possible synthetic. This program has its visible effects. In the material he provided in this session there is a wide range of color (I have not counted but would wager that the Kirman mediation carpet alone has over 15 colors)but, it seems to me, unvarying color harmony. We often hear the color skills of rug weavers and designers celebrated and sometimes this is credit due but there seems to me also a great deal of real nonesense written in this area, especially under such rubrics as "the tribal eye," when there is ample evidence that often weavers used the brightest colors available to them. So some further explanation seems called for to show why color harmony seems nearly universal when natural dyes are used. As you may have seen, Emmett Eiland, whose web site Oriental Rugzine http://www.orientalrugzine.com/ is an e-view treasure, offers a possibility in the current issue of Hali(Volume 112, page 77). He quotes Harald Bohmer as saying "Out of yarn dyed with natural dyes, it is impossible to create color combinations that seem grossly disharmonious." Eiland then asks, "But why is this so and why is it not true of synthetic dyes?" Eiland say that Bohmer's explanation is as follows: "...that while the primary synthetic dyes are absolutely monocromatic, each natural dye has elements of all the primary colors. For example, madder red while being perceived as red reflects blue and yellow as well. This has two important effects, one is that natural dyes - madder, indigo and onion skin yellow look good together. 'The integration of neighboring colors has a harmonizing effect: natural colors are already harmonized within themselves.' The second effect is that the presence in each natural dyes of all three primary colors inclines them toward black, which they would become were they all mixed together. 'The presence of all three primary colors brings about a shift toward black that, in its turn, softens the color's intensity.' So natural dyes harmonize and soften and that, simply, is why they look so good." As those of you who are familiar with my tendencies will recognize, I am attracted to arguments that contain explanatory mechanisms and here is one. Later in this short piece Eiland also mentions, with what seems to me some skepticism, a further statement that, "one of the outstanding qualities of natural dyes is that they do not run." If this is Mr. Bohmer speaking he certainly has a basis for this view. My own uninformed position would be that it is possible to have poor mordanting in the making of a natural dye and there seems no reason why these too should not in some cases run as well. But it is good to have a mechanism possibly explaining something we quite generally, I think, experience in our preference for natural dyes. Regards, R. John Howe |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Marvin Amstey |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 10:40 a.m. |
| mamstey1@rochester.rr.com Dear John and all, I will be so bold as to disagree with Dr. Bohmer that natural dyes will always go together harmoniously. I have seen color cards of wool dyed with all the possible colors that one might obtain from madder. I can assure you that I could put together a few of those colors that would clash and generally be ugly to most viewers; e.g. bright red and purple, or purple -blue and garnet as appears on my monitor as I type this. These last two colors, while artificial on my monitor, are very much in the range of colors on that color card. I would look for other explanations for prefering natural to synthetic - other than "bright" and "disharmonious". Best regards, Marvin |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Steve Price |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 12:39 p.m. |
| sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Anyone, I've seen more than one author assert that natural colors never run, and I can't help wondering whether these people automatically categorize any color run as being one produced by a synthetic dye. By doing that, of course, you can never see a run in a color produced by a natural dye. If it's true that natural dyes never run, it's an astonishing truth. Steve Price |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | R. John Howe |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 03:40 p.m. |
| Hi Marvin - If you notice, Mr. Bohmer's claim is very judiciously stated. He says "...Out of yarn dyed with natural dyes, it is impossible to create color combinations that seem grossly disharmonious." The key word is "grossly" and it functions to make this argument less thorough going than it might at first glance appear. And I have something close to your experience with the examples I see here in DC of newer DOBAG products themselves (Gayle Garrett is a distributor). It seems to me that rather often they do not quite have the color harmony of the antique pieces from the Bergama area. So color selectin still plays some role. But this does not disarm the central claim Bohmer appears to make nor does it diminish the explanatory thesis he provides for the question of why it there is so little color disharmony in rugs that are made from natural dyed yarns. In my experience, this is true even for contemporary products. It seems quite plausible to me that the "mottling" we see in rugs with natural dyes onto handspun wool does contain shades of the other primary colors and that this helps harmonize them. It seems to me also plausible (although I'd like to hear what someone like Ned Long has to say about it) that most of the natural colors also tend toward black and that this is likely the "softening" that we often point to in natural dye colors. So while I want to acknowledge your point, I think it does not really touch Mr. Bohmer's thesis as he states it. Regards, R. John Howe |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Wendel Swan |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 04:16 p.m. |
| Dear all, Without chemical testing, determination of the presence of synthetic dyes is difficult at best although, as I think you will see, the bleeding factor is an important one in the determination. We probably assume that some "bright" natural colors are synthetic when they are not. Orange and pink are two that come to mind. In the Kerman, you will see examples of what I consider to be beautiful orange and pink tones (both in the red family). On the issue of harmony, we need to carefully separate subjective opinions from what few facts we really have at hand. We are all familiar with certain (presumably) synthetic oranges that do not fade over time. They are especially noticeable in some antique or old Caucasian rugs when they contrast with other more mellow colors. This might be cited as one instance in which synthetic and natural dyes do not harmonize. But we must define what we mean by "harmony." I can remember when I first saw a Kirshehir rug many years ago. The brilliant magenta (undoubtedly from cochineal) of the mihrab seemed to fight with the madder reds in the border and the greens and yellows that were otherwise used in the rug. Perhaps because I was simply unfamiliar with this palette in Central Anatolia, the effect seemed "disharmonious." As Salieri suggested in Amadeus, it was as if there were "too many notes." Gradually, I learned to appreciate the aesthetics of this group, so that the colors no longer jar me. As to bleeding, I checked my own recollection with Ginny Tyson Barnes, a weaver and dyer who ran a dye workshop for the International Hajji Babas recently. Ginny's experience is that she has seen bleeding only in commercial (synthetic) dyes that were not properly boiled or otherwise fixed according to directions. Natural dyes, she says, may lose color by fading or, in the case of indigo, by abrasion, but natural dyes do not "run" or "bleed" as we use those terms. Some dyes, such as indigo or logwood, may suffer "crocking," which is the rubbing off of some of the dried dye. A turban, for example, dyed with indigo may leave a residue of dry indigo on the wearer's head or hands, but it does not bleed into other fabric. Indigo is a bit different than other dyes in that it is a surface dye that can be abraded, such as we experience with denim. According to Ginny, improper mordanting would not result in a "loose" or "runny" color. The mordant is essential to make the dyestuff bond with the fibers. With yellows, if you don't use a mordant or use it improperly, you will either get no color or a light color. But you won't get a color that bleeds out. As I learned in the workshop, cochineal is a substantive dye that doesn't require a mordant. Once in a fabric, it will not come out. It may fade, but it won't bleed. Perhaps one day I will show the extraordinary range of colors that I achieved in the workshop using both madder and cochineal. Like cochineal, madder doesn't bleed or run. I can speak from my limited experience that madder takes a long time to dye. Because she works with protein fibers, Ginny couldn't vouch for the results on plant fibers such as cotton. Wendel |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Steve Price |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 04:17 p.m. |
| sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear People, Color harmony is a property of natural dyes? Tell that to the contemporary tribal weaver who, as noted elsewhere, often uses the most garish colors she can get her hands on! Color harmony is a property of our perceptual experience; we learn to consider certain combinations to be harmonious and others to be dissonant. Antique rug collectors have been conditioned to consider the palettes of antique rugs as harmonious. We weren't born that way, we learned it, and under other circumstances could have learned that colors like fuchsia look good with everything. The only alternative explanations I can think of are: 1. There are genetic differences in perception among people of different areas, so the tribal weaver in Turkey today actually perceives her garish palette as looking to her the way I perceive the natural dye palette of antique rugs. If this is the case, how do I account for the fact that I used to see things differently? 2. People who find harmony in what I consider to be garish colors are mentally defective, just like anyone else who sees the world differently than I do. Yeah, sure. Steve Price |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | R. John Howe |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 04:42 p.m. |
| Dear folks - Both Wendel's post here and Steve's advance things a bit. First, it is interesting to hear that my man-on-the-street veiw that incorrect mordating of natural dyes is likely to result in natural dyes that run is not correct. Wendel's testimony from a lady who works with natural dyes all the time is that bad mordanting of a natural dye might result in no color or a lighter color but not in a color that runs. It is also true that color transference can result from different sources than a "running" dye. Indigo as Wendel points out is not water soluable and is there for "run" proof in water but since it does not penetrate wool and other fabrics and tends to cling to the upper surfaces, it is not "rub" proof. This in another setting is why "blue jeans" get white as they get older. And Steve rightly points out that like almost everything else in our knowledge of rugs, color harmony is a matter of perception and that since human perception is active, it can be shaped. This is perhaps a place to cite the story I've told before of Jim French, who was once at Christie's in NYC, coming to the TM and putting up a Caucasian rug and saying that "...when I first took this rug on consignment I didn't like if for the same reason you likely don't. It's colors include some bright and glaring ones that I associated with synthetic dyes." He then put up a Turkish textile of some sort with very similar colors and said that the dyes of this piece have been tested and all have been showed to be natural. Ffrench then suggested that we have been socialized into a color palette that is more restricted than that which can be produced with natural dyes and that resocialization is in order. This would also explain the experience with Turkish rugs with cochineal reds and bright yellows that Wendel has described. So we have established here so far, and among other things, the dangers of single-variable arguments and have suggested several reasons for seeing rug colors as we do. Regards, R. John Howe |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Yon Bard |
| Date | : | 09-25-2000 on 09:45 p.m. |
| The claim that natural dyes are 'absolutely monochromatic' is questionable. How do you define 'monochromatic?' Is it that they reflect light only of a single wavelength? I doubt that very much; if that were the case, they'd look awfully dark under most illuminations. As for running, good modern chemical dyes don't run either. As for perfect harmony, even if we can agree on what that means, is it necessarily always a good thing? In music the concept of harmony is scientificaly defined, but even Bach - not to mention most later composers - is full of dissonances without which the music would be a lot duller. Regards, Yon |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | R. John Howe |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 12:17 a.m. |
| Hi Yon - Perhaps you just mis-typed but the claim is that "synthetic dyes" are "absolutely monochromatic" and while probably something of a straw man as stated, it does seem to jive with our experience, even our frequent descriptions of the look of synthetic dyes. Don't we often complain that they have a "flatness" a "lack of complexity" as compared to most natural dyes, especially when these are applied to handspun wools. (This reminds us that even this generalization needs qualifying since one of the producers of contemporary rugs wrote somewhere that he has applied a naturally produced black dye to machine spun wool and got a flat color very much like what synthetic dyes are reputed to produce, this suggesting that the mottling we see an admire with natural dyes is in part due to the irregularities in handspun wool which work to make the dye take to it differentially. And, of course, modern chrome dyes are nowaday usually completely color fast and not open to running but the notion that natural dyes that are not properly mordanted still will not run was new and useful to me. On your last point about lack of color harmony sometimes giving a kind of "life," if you will, to color combinations, it would be interesting to see if any particular instances of such color usage occur to you. George O'Bannon complained in print a bit once after visiting Chris Walter's Tibetian weaving project in Nepal that the pieces they were producing seemed to him often to lack the color "pizazz" of some older Tibetan weaving. George explicitly suggested that perhaps the "pizazz" he was referring to was often the result of the well-know use of hot synthetic dyes in many Tibetan weavings. Is this the sort of thing you intended? I think there are unexpected combinations of colors that "work" in oriental rugs done with natural dyes. The minor borders that I admire so in Wendel's Kerman mediation carpet have an unusual, definite and quite deep mustard colored ground and the drawing is in part with an unexpected clear torquoise blue, a combination I can't recall seeing anywhere else and that for me at least works very effectively in part because the combination is itself unexpected. But I expect your point about dissonance moves beyond an example like this since the mustard-torquoise has no real dissonance in it that I can detect. So it would be interesting to put up some examples of the sort of thing to which you refer. Thanks for these comments, R. John Howe |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Jerry+Silverman |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 04:16 a.m. |
| I was rather taken with Harald Bohmer's explanation for the harmoniousness (is this a word?) of natural dyes in the latest HALI. I am also a firm believer that one needs to train one's eye to recognize harmony when one sees it. I've been at rug dealers many times when a customer is looking for several rugs - say for his living room, dining room, and entry way. Often his/her goal is three rugs all in the same pattern. New, contract rugs with the same pattern in a wide range of sizes makes this possible. And sometimes, if the salesman is looking for a quick sale, that's all there is to it. The customer winds up with identical 4'x6', 8'x10', and 9'x12' rugs. Happy as a clam. (Honest to God! I've seen it with my own eyes!) But occasionally, the dealer will have someone on the staff with interior design experience who takes over the task of training the customer's eye to recognize the harmonies that may be achieved with different designs in different color ranges. Every time I've seen this done, the designer has chosen rugs with natural dyes. Practically any antique Persian rug looks nice in conjunction with another. The same holds true with the newer naturally dyed rugs from Pakistan, India, and Nepal, especially if they've been tea-dyed. And it's a bigger sale for the dealer, as these rugs usually cost more than the rugs with synthetic dyes. But the point remains: one must learn what is harmonious in a particular place and time. Interesting Salon, John. -Jerry- |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Steve Price |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 08:42 a.m. |
| sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear All, In a previous post, Eiland is quoted as saying that Bohmer's explanation for the harmonious nature of natural dyes is ...primary synthetic dyes are absolutely monocromatic, each natural dye has elements of all the primary colors.... This statement is so completely absurd that something has obviously been lost, perhaps in a translation. No dye is absolutely monochromatic, or even nearly so. There can be no doubt that Bohmer understands this. So what can he mean? I suspect that what Bohmer refers to is not the dye, but yarn that has been colored with it. Even this doesn't make sense in technical terms, though, so I have to assume another layer of meaning: what he means by "monochromatic" is "of uniform color". The basic observation, I suspect, is one that most of us have made and are referred to in an earlier post in this thread: new rugs made with synthetic dyes have colors that lack "life" - if you look at the pile, any given color is perfectly uniform from one knot to the next. Old rugs, made with natural dyes, have colors that vary ever so slightly from knot to knot, which gives them depth and makes them more attractive to guys like me. What is the basis of this difference between old rugs and new ones? The notion that yarn dyed in a vat will have color differences along its length makes no sense at all. The entire yarn is exposed to the same concentrations of the same chemicals, at the same temperature and for the same time. How could there possibly be differences in color from one half-inch segment to the next? The answer is obvious. There can't be. How do we account for the observed differences, then? Funny you should ask. The answer is that old rugs are made with handspun wool, which is not of uniform diameter. Therefore, the dye penetrates more readily to the center in the thin sections, less readily in thicker ones. Thus, the center of the thread is darker in places where the yarn is of smaller diameter. When we look at a rug, we are seeing the knots as cross sections of the yarn (to a large extent). Thus, in handspun wool, there will be minor variations in color intensity from one knot to the next. This would be true whether the dye was natural or synthetic, of course. In newer rugs, made with machine spun wool, there is much less irregularity in fiber diameter. Thus, the dye colors the yarn interior much more evenly and there is no visual illusion of "depth". Not because the dyes are not natural, but because the yarn is not of uniform diameter. Steve Price |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Yon Bard |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 10:30 a.m. |
| John, I didn't mean anything specific in my statement about harmony - it was a purely hypothetical statement based on what may be a meaningless analogy to music. But since I am lacking a scientific definition of 'harmony' in colors (unlike music) I cannot give examples of pleasin unharmonious combinations. Steve, I don't see how Bohmer's statement can possibly be interpreted as per your explanation. Remember that he says something about the natural dyes containing all colors and hence combining to form black. That is not the same as saying that the colors themselves are non-uniform. Besides, don't we have cases of synthetic dyes applied to hand-spun wool? These should then be 'harmonious' according to your interpretation. Regards, Yon |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Steve Price |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 11:14 a.m. |
| sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Yon, I have so much trouble with the quote attributed to Bohmer because it makes no sense and Bohmer knows his stuff about dyes. Also, we have two properties confounded now (my fault). One is harmonious combinations of color and the other is the "depth" that comes from what we might call "micro-abrash". Harmoniousness is, I believe, completely in the mind of the beholder, and, as Jerry points out, it can be modified by education. Whether it's true that only natural dyes can be harmonious depends on what the observer considers to be color harmony. The visual "depth" that comes from "micro-abrash" (slight variations in color intensity from one knot to another) would, by my explanation, occur no matter what the dye if handspun wool is used. The qualifying condition on that is that the dying be not so intense as to uniformly color the entire depth of the yarn. Regards, Steve Price |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Leslie+Orgel |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 11:52 a.m. |
| Dear all, Many years ago I worked on the theory of the spectra of organic dyestuffs. They are not monochromatic and, of course, Bohmer knows this. So what does he mean? I think he means that the adsorption by synthetic dyes is usually confined to a narrower region of the spectrum than adsorption by natural dyestuffs. This could arise in two ways. It could be an intrinsic property of the major dye component or it could be due to the admixture of many minor dye components in natural dyes that are not present in the synthetics. No doubt, both factors contribute, but my guess is that the second is the more important. I think that in the case of madder and indigo the synthetic dye is identical to the major component of the natural dye. Perhaps Bohmer means that the spectra of the mixtures that make up each natural dye have a substantial overlap which is absent in the case of synthetics. Of course, it is hard to tell what some one else really means without talking to them, so the above may be nonsense. Best wishes Leslie |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | R. John Howe |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 12:03 p.m. |
| Hi Yon - You wrote in part: "I didn't mean anything specific in my statement about harmony - it was a purely hypothetical statement based on what may be a meaningless analogy to music. But since I am lacking a scientific definition of 'harmony' in colors (unlike music) I cannot give examples of pleasin unharmonious combinations." My thoughts: It seems to me that we should not give up so quickly on this thought of yours. Let's suspend for the moment the admitted need (if we were to talk with real scientific precision) for a proper definition of "color harmony." Let me also assume that, despite this need, you have not entirely expunged from your everyday parlance, as you look at rugs and talk about them, some more man-on-the-street notions of "color harmony." That you still sometimes say sentences that indicate that you feel particular colors "clash" or are "unpleasant" next to one another or that other combinations are "pleasing" to you. Now on this admittedly impoverished scientific ground, can you identify an example of the sort of thing to which you referred hypothetically: a rug in which a "clash" of colors might possibly be seen as aesthetically meritorious in some way. Is the O'Bannon example of "pizzaz" in some Tibetan rugs, likely the result of the presence of synthetics, the sort of instance of which you were thinking or does the picture conjured up for you by your hypothetical reference reach further than this in the direction of color dissonance? Thanks for trying, R. John Howe |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Marla Mallett |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 12:22 p.m. |
| marlam@mindspring.com Just a couple of notes, from my personal experience: Flickering color variation in a skein of yarn--either handspun or machine spun, with either natural or synthetic dyes--is easily achieved if desired, by crowding the dyepot. One need only jam in so much yarn that the dye cannot circulate evenly in the first few minutes. Some weavers find this very desirable, although I suspect that rug merchants have not always agreed, and have lobbied for uniform color. Secondly, richness in synthetic dye colors can be achieved if two, three or more colors are mixed from prepared stock solutions by a sensitive colorist. Unfortunately, in too many places they have just been used straight from the package--with garish results guaranteed. Marla |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Yon Bard |
| Date | : | 09-26-2000 on 05:09 p.m. |
| John, sorry about this, but I must keep evading your question; I simply don't feel that specific color combinations are unharmonious, though when my wife asks me to evaluate the proposed colors in a quilt she is making I am able to conclude sometimes that some color doesn't belong there. It may be worth noting that I have a modern Isphahan rug on the den floor with all synthetic colors, and it's invariably the rug that visiting non-ruggies pick as their favorite - ahead of all the antiques. Even I feel that its colors are quite harmonious, whatever that means. Regards, Yon |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Jerry+Silverman |
| Date | : | 09-27-2000 on 03:28 a.m. |
| Leslie Orgel's posting got me thinking that what we're seeing as harmony may relate to the dye stuffs themselves. (Redundant disclaimer: I'm no expert on the organic chemistry of dyes.) It stands to reason that synthetic dyes are substantially a single chemical - a single organic compound produced in quantity by the clever chemists of Bayer or Hoechst. There probably isn't anything else in that packet of dye except that single chemical. Natural dye stuffs, on the other hand, are most likely awash in a chemical stew. Concentrations of the active dye stuff differ from plant to plant. Some madder is stronger/more intense/more concentrated than others. (The analogy to grapes used in wine is appropos here.) Assuming the dye-er isn't jamming the pot, as Marla suggests, a synthetic dye should dye all the yarn an identical color: there's only that single dye chemical in the pot. The natural dye is nowhere near as precise. Who knows how concentrated it is or what else was in the dye stuff that was ground up? It's imprecision of this sort that leads prospective buyers to have a toke of marijuana before completing the purchase. (I'm told cocaine is tested in a similar fashion.) Variability of concentration of natural organic chemicals is an inevitable part of the process. (Don't get me started on herbal remedies.) -Jerry- |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Steve Price |
| Date | : | 09-27-2000 on 06:21 a.m. |
| sprice@hsc.vcu.edu Dear Jerry, Let me help move you along on some aspects of the behavior of solutions of chemicals in general and dyes in particular. 1. Synthetic dyes are very likely to be mixtures of chemicals, since there is no reason for the manufacturer to go to great lengths to purify them if they are to be used this way. That's why different batches of paint of nominally the same color from the same manufacturer frequently don't match. They are likely to have fewer major components than most natural dyes, though. 2. While there can be variations in concentration from one batch to another (as you note, buyers of some chemicals want to sample the batch for exactly that reason), local variations in concentration in different parts of a single solution don't exist except at a level so microscopic that it is irrelevant in the real world. That is, no matter how many color chemicals there are in the dye pot, every inch of the yarn gets exposed to identical concentrations of all of them, at the same temperature an for the same time (ignoring things like stuffing the pot, which, in a more sophisticated setting, is a variation on tie-dying or ikat dying). Regards, Steve Price |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Marvin Amstey |
| Date | : | 09-27-2000 on 09:17 a.m. |
| mamstey1@rochester.rr.com Dear Steve, Jerry, and all, While the dyes are not pure as noted by Steve, the act of dyeing produces variations and character beyond the lack of purity. Steve's comment about equal exposure in the pot may not occur if the dyer doesn't stir the pot properly, let's the temperature vary, or forgets what he is doing while smoking that joint. An appropriate analogy is the barbecue chef keeping the temperature within +/- 2 degrees in order to get the same flavor from his barbecued ribs. If he's absolutely attentive to the thermometer, he will be successful, yet the lot of ribs tastes different. The quality of meat (wool), the type of wood to heat the fire, the two pieces that got stuck together and were heated unevenly in spite of the thermometer, all matter. It just never comes out the same! Perhaps that is why "naturally" dyed products, i.e. those done in the field in some giant cauldron used for a century produces the character we are looking for. Compare this to the stainless steel vat with the extra-special tumbler or stirring rod used to dye worsted wool in a spotless Bayer factory. The product will be more uniform and less variable - not necessarily less admired. Best regards, marvin |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Vincent Keers |
| Date | : | 09-27-2000 on 09:54 a.m. |
| Dear all, As some of us are talking about blowing, my brains were struck by clear moment. In Nepal I didn't see the stirring in the pot, for it was 37degrees celcius. So they went in, for thea, in the shadow. I did see how they dried the wool: Outside in the harsh sun and in the wind. As the bundels hang out to dry, you could see the bottom getting darker compared to the top. It's like putting a towel in thea, don't wash it with fresh water, and hang it out to dry. The bottom will be dark brown. The sun does the rest. In the progres of production these bundels will be made into balls. So the effect will be: Dark-light-dark-light etc. Chemical or natural deyes alike. In a modern facility, they use a very big kind of hairdryer.30 hairdreyers in a row and transporting the wool bundels along them. The machine makes terrible noise, and in 37degrees celcius, it's not so nice working with it. I personaly, favoured the drying in the cool, Hymalian wind. But..production had to be made, for whole the world wanted "original" Nepal. Goodbye old beautifull, romantic world. Best Regards, Vincent Keers |
| Subject | : | RE:Natural and Synthetic Dyes and Color Harmony |
| Author | : | Vincent+Keers |
| Date | : | 09-27-2000 on 11:45 a.m. |
| Ooops, PS The quality of water. Afther washing, the rug will show it's final abrash. All kinds of "polution" in the water, in different areas. Iron, salt, chalk?,. Why do we wash the rugs in western countries? Because we know, what we get. Standard quality! Uniform quality! Sideline: Sorry can't help it. How, do you like your rug? Oak washed, Marble washed or maybe 1970'ties washed!(All washed out). Latest developement:"We will wash your rug with genuine steel rasorblades, instead of oldfashioned wood, the rug will look as if it's very old, and we will sell you the next one sooner. (But your neighbours, neither your friends know the difference, so it's worth the extra investment). You'll look good! It's a funny world. Vincent Keers. |