TurkoTek Discussion Boards

Subject  :  Sneaky Weaver
Author  :  Patrick Weiler
Date  :  06-20-2000 on 08:14 p.m.
jpweil00@gte.net It has been brought to my attention by a sharp-eyed, respected authority that my analysis of the first balisht is not complete. There are symmetrical knots along the edges and interspersed in some areas of the field. As I suspected in the description of this rug, it might be a heinous two-faced balisht, but little did I know that the duplicity would be in the weave and not the missing face. I recall reading that symmetrical knots are used along the edges in some asymmetrically woven Turkoman pieces, but do not know if it is common in Baluch weaving. It now appears that this enigmatic bag face is more complex than it looks. The books Baluchi Woven Treasures by Boucher and Belouch Prayer Rugs by Craycraft and Halley do not show any rugs with both symmetrical and asymmetrical knots in the same piece. Who really did weave it? Kurd-Baluch, Arab-baluch? Confused, Patrick Weiler

Subject  :  RE:Sneaky Weaver
Author  :  Mark+Hopkins
Date  :  06-20-2000 on 10:00 p.m.
Are you sure the symmetrical knots are not the result of restoration? Occasionally pieces crop up where it becomes clear that the restorer was more comfortable with his/her own style of knotting rather than that used in the original piece.

Subject  :  RE:Sneaky Weaver
Author  :  Patrick+Weiler
Date  :  06-20-2000 on 11:45 p.m.
jpweil00@gte.net Mark, I would prefer a nice, easy, no trouble weaving, but it looks like I got dealt a wild card here. The symmetric knots range up the left side for four or, in some places five, rows then some of the white "dot" border knots. The right side has two and in places three rows of symmetric knots. The knotting is not consistent, yet the colors are the same. Even the abrash just below the middle of the field follows all the way to the edges. I do not think any restorer would have gone to this much trouble for a weaving with as little value as this must have had. This is probably an early 20th century weaving, and may have been done commercially by someone more familiar with a normally different design style, yet it sure feels and looks like Baluch. I did not even notice this feature, since I just assumed it was knotted the same all the way across. It was not until I acquired the second piece that I began to make comparisons. And it was not until this salon that I even took more than a casual look at both of them, other than the cursory knot count and color comparison. I will try to have an independent analysis done in a couple of days to see if it is not just my eyes going crossed after so much intense scrutiny. Thanks, Patrick Weiler

Subject  :  RE:Sneaky Weaver
Author  :  Patrick+Weiler
Date  :  06-21-2000 on 04:03 p.m.
jpweil00@gte.net Mark, Take a look at the photo's below: This one shows some of the apricot knots from the bottom,left side of the #1 balisht. These are asymmetrical. The outer apricot knots in this section are symmetrical, as can bee seen from the salon photo showing the outer border "symbol". This shows some of the white border knots, asymmetrical. This one shows some of the red border knots that are symmetrical (3) then they become asymmetrical like most of the rest of the rug. It is not too easy to see, but the white and black knots to the left of the red symmetrical knots are also symmetrical. The knotting is so integral to the weaving that it does not appear to be restoration. Especially due to the fact that it is mostly the outer, symmetrical knots that are more "worn down". Confirmedly yours, Patrick Weiler

Subject  :  RE:Sneaky Weaver
Author  :  Tom Cole
Date  :  06-22-2000 on 10:24 a.m.
Symmetrical knots are often used in areas adjacent to or near the selvedges as in Tekke weavings. This does not appear to be restoration but just a quirk of weaving. It may represent a means of making the edges stronger and less prone to wear.

Subject  :  RE:Sneaky Weaver
Author  :  Mark+Hopkins
Date  :  06-22-2000 on 12:01 p.m.
Hey, maybe when you're busy weaving your balishts the way your Baluch forebears taught you using the ubiquitous assym. knot, and one day your next door neighbor Tammy Turkmen of the esteemed Yomut tribe says, hey why don't you do it the easy way and use THIS kind of knot to resolve your selvages, maybe you'd say, what the hell, that makes sense, why not? After all, there's tons of evidence of the Baluch groups borrowing Turkmen motifs, and despite a few learned protests, it's pretty clear that many of them lived hip to hip. So what's to keep them from borrowing structural techniques too. MH

Subject  :  RE:Sneaky Weaver
Author  :  Marvin Amstey
Date  :  06-22-2000 on 06:05 p.m.
mamstey1@rochester.rr.com Mark, I like your reasoning: logical and simple. I could even believe it happens that way.Best regards, Marvin

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