| Subject | : | From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Vincent Keers |
| Date | : | 08-31-1999 on 08:34 p.m. |
| Dear friends, Just tell me what you like, and I'll sell you the rag. What I'm trying to say: How did a rag become a rag? If we pay, we will get plenty of rags directly imported from the country of origine. They'll cut them at your service. When a very old rug can't be restored, in the opinion of the local wholesaler, it will be cut as you're willing to pay for it. Ban the rags, go for the rugs with a lot of wear and tear. Save them from the knifes! Join the first Anti-Rags & Knifes society: Vincent's ark. On the other hand, I sometimes meet a rug wich isn't very beautiful except for one small, very pretty pattern, then I melt. What did happen at that time and place? What was he or she, who made it, thinking of. When you're in the knotting bussines, you don't have a direct result. Only when the rug has been properly clipped it showes. Cut the rug and treasure this one moment of pure art. With kind regards, Vincent |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Erol Abit |
| Date | : | 09-01-1999 on 05:04 p.m. |
| But cutting a rug into pieces or rags, i think, is also an art. It requires natural process but not a knife. (however meaning of natural process can change from person to person). Anyway, I am having difficulty what i am trying to say. Let me give an example again. Look at the borders between Canadia and the US or between countries in Africa. What you will see is they were divided like by a knife. On the other hand, look at the distribution of lands or continents. What we will see in this case is a case we are in trouble to understand. By the way I suspect your rug society may also be assembling rugs from rags by glueing or sewing each other. I don't know, perhaps, there is such an art too. If not and if someone attempts to perform such a new art in the future, he/she should not forget to cite me. Regards, Erol1999@altavista.net |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Vincent Keers |
| Date | : | 09-01-1999 on 08:06 p.m. |
| Dear Erol, Yes, I'm willing to welcome the Amish Quilts in my Ark to give them a save haven. Yes, you're right. We have to invite surgeons who we will pay per perfect rag. I think a surgeons rag is more expensive. "This rag belonged to the collection of Dr. Barnard, well known for his divorces and his harttransplants" I don't think Sam dislikes rags, he dislikes the way they are handeld by sly merchants. I don't think Sam will dislike a 15'th century rag wich he found at the local secondhand shop. I think he would treasure it. I know I would. In my Ark! With kind regards, Vincent |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Jerry Silverman |
| Date | : | 09-02-1999 on 04:03 a.m. |
| I'm not sure I follow this thread, but let me add this little addendum. About fifteen years ago my wife and I were vacationing in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and found a spectacular coat at a rug dealer's. He had bought a trashed 4th qtr. 19th century Caucasian sumak that was waaaay beyond repair. His wife cut it up and made two hip-length, shawl-collared coats from it. One of the big, central medallions fills the entire back. Oh, and the lining is made from Central Asian ikat panels. She just wears it to the symphony and rug conferences. And looks simply fabulous in it. (Maybe I'll see about taking a photo of it.) -Jerry- |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Vincent Keers |
| Date | : | 09-02-1999 on 04:56 p.m. |
| Dear Jerry, It would be a different case if the rug dealer had cut the Soumack and sold you a very unique 19'th. century rag. $4,000? $8,000? $1,000. I'm in favour of giving rags a new, tasteful purpose. A rag is a rag, cut out of its context it,s an article wich you can like or dislike. A rag fitted in a huge modern painting, can be very beautiful in it's new context. But a rag is a rag when it got hit by a train or eaten by the dog or mice. A rag is a rag because people liked it, and used it. A rag isn't a rag if we promote the cutting of worn rugs. I've seen a 17'th century Herat cut up in four parts because the Children didn't grant eachother the joy of having a wonderful rug. Don't tell the Dutch it's normal to cut rugs, or the world will be flooded with rags. How many rugs have been destroyed by the laity the miserly merchant etc.? If we want to be taken serious by different art disciplines, we can't dribble at the sight of an old rag. I draw the line at 1850, before the industrial revolution, it's an o.k. rag to be studied, described and filed in Vincent's Ark. With kind regards, Vincent. |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Marvin Amstey |
| Date | : | 09-02-1999 on 06:04 p.m. |
| mamstey1@rochesetr.rr.com The best examples of cut rugs that made money, were sought after as examples - and were preferred to the intact article - are examples of Turkomen tentbands. Not many people can display a 50 ft tentband (or even half of one). However, it is easy to display 4 or 5 ft of a band. Jim Blackmon had a fragment - about 22 ft. - of an all pile tentband. I once tried to make a deal with him and another collector to buy the portions of it that we each wanted. Had I known who the other collector was at the time of those discussions, it would have happened. As it was he sold the fragment as 22 ft. C'est la Vie! The point is: I had no problem cutting that fragment to get the example I wished, at the price I wished. Regards, Marvin |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Vincent Keers |
| Date | : | 09-02-1999 on 08:22 p.m. |
| Dear Marvin, Rembrandts Nightwatch has been cut, for it didn't fit in the room. With kind regards, Vincent. |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Jerry Silverman |
| Date | : | 09-02-1999 on 08:30 p.m. |
| Hmmm.... Scraps of Rembrant's Nightwatch might be something for which there would be a ready group of avid collectors. Kinda' puts a different spin on this discussion of fragments, doesn't it? -Jerry- |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Vincent Keers |
| Date | : | 09-02-1999 on 08:46 p.m. |
| Dear Jerry, My point is: Cutting a work of art is a crime. The real Nightwatch has been stolen from me and my children etc. It may well be that the part wich has been removed, could provide us info like, copulating Puttis. Maybe the portrayed guys didn't like them. It was common knowledge the guys didn't like the way they were portrayed and Rembrandt was seen in those days as a mediocre breadpainter. With kind regards, Vincent |
| Subject | : | RE:From Riches to Rags |
| Author | : | Sam Gorden |
| Date | : | 09-03-1999 on 12:39 a.m. |
| gordsa@earthlink.net To All You Wonderful Participants After reading the many contibutions to "From Rags To Riches", I have come to the following conclusion. There seems to be some confusion between the personal, affirmative reaction of an individual to any object, in this case a rug fragment, and its evaluation as a work of art. All of us have the right to collect and enjoy any artifact that meets our fancy. It has nothing to do with its consideration as a work of art. However, if you and your abettors conspire to convince us and others that these specimens are great artistic treasures and hope to profit from the business maxim, "Buy Cheap, Sell Dear", via insidious promotion, I will unmask you! There, I said it and I'm glad! Mr. Silverman recounted his experience with the creation of his wife's coat from a series of fragments. This caused me to remember an experience of my own. Many years ago, living in Vienna, I acquired a fine pair of Biedermier dining chairs. Their upholstery soon wore out' I located a nice, large fragment of a Turkish kilim. This was cut to size and used to replace the worn seats by Barbara and her sister, Anna. The result was very gratifying but I never considered the replacements as works of art. Thank you for your interest and contribution to this discussion. Sam |