Posted by Mike Tschebull on July 25, 1999 at 20:22:43:
In Reply to: First reaction posted by Daniel Deschuyteneer on July 25, 1999 at 09:21:51:
: Dear Wendel and you all,
: What an interesting rug !!! Having seen such a rug I will have a nice day, thanks Wendel.
: With most respect I would want to add the following commentaries:
: 1/The Shasavan-like medallions:
: Before having seen plate 72 and 74 from Tanavoli's Shasavan book presented here I was not aware of this squarish representation of the medallions spread on the ground field.
: Most often they appear as central decorations of diamonds (stepped or not), scattered on the field or organised in a lattice design. The ended protrusions being open horizontally, vertically or in the two directions.
: This design is encountered in Shasavan weavings but isn't typical of them.
: Kurds of Khorassan, various tribes of North west Persia ( Kurds, Kamseh, Afshar, Lori, Arabs….) also used it. This is the result of the diversity of tribes who mingle in this area. This design in also found in other Turkish groups from Turkey and South-West Persia, peculiarly in Gabbeh rugs.
: References.
: Tribal Rugs - Housego - plate 142
: Tribal Rugs - Brian W. Mac Donald - plate 109 (more probably Herki) - 110 123
: Gabbeh - Parviz Tanavoli - plate 38
: Kurdish rugs - Eagleton - plate 56 - 66
: Bread and Salt Parviz Tanavoli - plate 51 - 74
: Tribal Rugs of Southern Persia - James Opie - page 113 - 135 - 139
: The design widely spread among Turkish groups our their neighbours isn't really helpful and as you notice the borders are not typically found in Shasavan flat weaves.
: The internal medachyl border is common in Caucasian rugs as well as the medallions with the "C" motifs at the bottom of the rug.
: The outer border contains elements reminiscent of Turkmen and Luri's weavings.
: Other diamonds contain motifs with strong Turkoman antecedents. This may imply that this rug was woven by Turkish rugs but the mingling of the tribes and the influence, each of them, had on the other one render this argument hazardous.
: Yellow ground Shirvan are not rare but this colour is more often found in Moghan rugs.
: As the handle and the low knot count don't match for South Caucasian Shirvan rugs a more southerly attribution is more probable. The use of camel hair points to North West Persia.
: Until now, except for their flat weaves not distinctively structure are known.
: 2/ Shasavan ?
: I think its Mike Tshebull who once wrote that Shasavan didn't woven pile rugs.
: This advice wasn't shared by the inhabitants of this area (I think their reactions has been published) and in a recent Gereh's article from ??? ( I have forgotten the author's name and can't find the revue back), the author wrote that if they woven pile rugs it was surely a recent feature.
: 3/ Studying the type of clothes the human represented on the rug bear would be interesting to form an opinion but they can't be analyse in the picture.
: So is this rug Shasavan? Difficult to say but what's sure is that I would really want to have it in my collection.
: Best regard's
: Daniel
On point 2, above, I'm not totally sure what is meant, but indeed, the Shahsavan do say they don't have a history of pile rug weaving, and that is evident from fieldwork done. For more on this subject, read Richard Tapper's article in the last Hali, and/or his most recent book on the subject, and excerpts from my field notes, also in Hali. The reference to my opinion on Shahsavan pile weaving can only be based on reading my letter to Ghereh and the response by the editor, since my paper on the subject, given in Tehran in 1996, is unpublished. It's not a B/W issue; a measured opinion on this subject has all kinds of nuances; to have valid one requires quite a bit of familiarity with anthropology - gained by reading - and fieldwork. I'll address the issue of opinions/fieldwork/nuance at ICOC in Milan.