September 26th, 2012, 03:12 AM   1
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68
Beshir Cloudband, 2

Hi All

This is a follow up on a previous tread, archived here: http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00126/cloudband.htm

The following fragment went up for auction and I took the plunge, couldn't resist the temptation to be able to boast that I now with 2 pieces may have the worlds largest collection of this format (only joking)



In the left lower part of the Torba there are a series of small floral motifs, which I can't help seeing as poppies, as opposed to for example tulips:



The knot count is a lot less than the other other Torba I have, but the wool and colors sure are beautiful. The purple wool is corroded.
They both have a very old feel, and subjectively I would put them both pre-mid 19th (of course totally subjective)



The other reason why I take the liberty to bring this topic up again is that the previous tread ended in a general speculative suggestion that the Behshir cloud band or the Yilan motif could be related to a star/(cintamani) and dragon constellation on the night-sky. A speculation which, perhaps because of the surprise element in the discussion, were met a bit too uncritical. But since last I have found another interesting source which might sustain the star constellation speculation:



This is from The Book of Fixed Stars originally written by Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi in the 10th c. His book was highly influential in the Islamic world and survives in numerous manuscripts and translations. The books is filled with rich illustrations of the star constellations, which has been continuously redrawn in different stylistic periods. One stylistic element which seems constant in the illustrations during time is the depictions of the stars as either red or golden dots.



Looking around on the web its my impression that 2/3 of the illustrations has red dots as stars, the rest golden dots (and a few has black or a mix). The depictions of stars as red dots may seem odd from an western point of view, but perhaps the red color could be understood as the poor mans version of the deep shine of gold.

best
Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 26th, 2012 at 05:15 AM.
September 26th, 2012, 04:16 AM  2
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

This is just a speculation on top of the other speculations, but if the floral motif of the Beshir Yilan motif is poppies instead of tulips, then opium may be the sad key to the merging of dragon and flower motif.


The opium poppy with the famous cut

Opium production and addiction is of course a part of Central Asia history:


From the Russian 19th c. publication "The Turkestan Album"

In China opium is as far as I understand historically referred to as "Dragon", the smoke as "Dragons breath". And via 1920´s Hong Kong slang sadly moved on into english in the term "chasing the dragon" as contemporary slang for smoking heroin.

An abundance of old Chinese opium pipes with dragon motifs certainly do exist, this one even with red dots:



We are often used to the interpretation of floral oriental rugs as gardens/paradise/heaven, an opium poppy field motif could be interpreted along this line: opium-intoxication/dream/night-sky/heaven. In our western perception a sinister line of associations, but it may not have been so in a mid-19th central asian context.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 26th, 2012 at 05:44 AM.
September 26th, 2012, 08:25 AM   3
Rich Larkin
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 27

Hi Martin,

You're a speculator, my friend, but you're the best speculator.

As far as your acquired piece is concerned, congratulations. There's something special about the yellow, red and blue in the really old Beshirs, and it looks like you got one.

Rich

Last edited by Rich Larkin; September 26th, 2012 at 09:05 AM.
September 26th, 2012, 01:09 PM   4
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

cheers Rich I of course take it as a compliment, even though I for sure know that this may be seen as bordering the greyzone where facts can turn to fiction, and fictions to facts. Proving anything ultimate right or wrong in this is probably impossible. So its of course just strings of suggestions, which may open up for the possibility of seeing the rugs in contexts broader than the aesthetic.

But the aesthetic riches of the rugs is of course the core for most/all of us. And I sure agree with you on the colors of this one. On top of the colors you mention it has in the Botehs a beautiful corroded purple (not brownish as it may look on my photos), I can't really reproduce it fairly (all the troubles of different monitors and colorspaces and clipping of the reds ext ext), but here is a try:



best Martin
September 26th, 2012, 04:16 PM   5
Joel Greifinger
Members

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 29

Hi Martin,

Quote:
Proving anything ultimate right or wrong in this is probably impossible.
Yes, but providing incisive evidence to support your interpretations (as you always do) makes them not just plausible but persuasive and productive of further investigation. Allow me to echo Rich's kudos:

Joel Greifinger

Last edited by Joel Greifinger; September 26th, 2012 at 07:44 PM.
September 26th, 2012, 04:46 PM   6
Horst Nitz
Members

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5

Hi

..and good entertainment in this case

Best, Horst
September 26th, 2012, 05:03 PM  7
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

sure Horst, there are no letters in this border
best Martin
September 26th, 2012, 06:25 PM   8
Rich Larkin
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 27

Hi Martin,

Quote:
On top of the colors you mention it has in the Botehs a beautiful corroded purple...
Not to mention that excellent Prussian blue in your pic!

Rich
September 27th, 2012, 01:09 AM   9
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

Since the last tread I have seen two others of these small format Cloud band piece. But there must of course be more around. This one (which perhaps is atrapping rather than a bag?)



And I think i saw one, very much like my new one, but in perfect condition, including fringes. Unfortunately I didn't save the photo, but it was a photo were a person hold it up for presentation, a bit like we see it on photos from "Textile mornings" at the Textile Museum. Any chance anyone remember this photo?

And from now on I will of course also look very much out for poppy related motifs, fillings or patterns in the Cloud Band and other rugs. I think I have seen some discussions here on Turkotek regarding other patterns being possible poppy patterns, I am not quite sure if it is regarded slightly controversial in general? The poppies are of course also just flowers, and actually a bit strange if they shouldn't be anywhere at all somewhere on the rugs.

best
Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 27th, 2012 at 01:16 AM.
September 27th, 2012, 02:57 AM   10
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

Poppies of course have different appearances. But in bloom red, black and perhaps yellow seems appropriate. Here a small bucket of poppy flowers and a Beshir which might be related:



The Gul on this Beshir is a bit odd with the stripes in the center. But these stripes could kind of fit a graphically stylized poppy.
In general a lot of the Beshir cloud band large format rugs doo have red flowers in their borders (which of course proves nothing, as its so common, but still...)

best Martin
September 27th, 2012, 03:33 AM   11
fili2
Registered

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1

Hi Martin,
Quote:
And from now on I will of course also look very much out for poppy related motifs, fillings or patterns in the Cloud Band and other rugs.
Right. To corroborate your theory on the relation between dragon and opium you’ll need to find more rugs using both of the motives.
I remember the opium poppies surfaced several times on Turkotek, especially thanks to the Williams brothers. I advise you to search our site for “poppy – poppies – opium”.
Regards,

Filiberto Boncompagni
September 27th, 2012, 03:47 AM   12
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Filiberto

I will try the poppy search.

(and I have to slightly correct my self in the archived tread where I wrote regarding the large medallion/Gul Beshir "..the red s-shape perhaps not is nether cloud band nor snake, but its certainly not floral". This was of course not about the Guls but the s-shape. Anyway I have to say I now must see this Beshir cloud band type as dragons in the night-sky intersected by large poppies)

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 27th, 2012 at 03:59 AM.
September 27th, 2012, 01:49 PM   13
James Blanchard
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 23

Hi Martin,

I don't have much to add to the conversation, except to compliment you on yet another wonderful Turkmen weaving. Within the genre, I would say that your piece is of star quality.

As far as "poppies" go, here is a piece that might fit the bill. I think it is likely Ersari, though the colour palette might suggest "Yomut" as well.

Either way, the motif looks like it might be a later version on the one on Martin's lovely torba.

James



September 27th, 2012, 04:34 PM  14
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi James

Thanks for the compliment to my Torba, very appropriate calling it a star as the possible relation to dragon and star constellation is perhaps the most interesting part of these treads But anyway now I am slightly astray hunting poppies.

And Filiberto: searching the archive I see that the topic quickly derivative to a lot of issues, soma ext…
So I decided to try to keep a close focus to possible poppies on Beshir cloud band rugs. And I must say I actually got a bit surprised how much I found. Of course this is with loads of reservations, but still I would say that the vast majority of Beshir cloud band rugs do have floral borders and floral field fillings which I personally easily could see as poppies. The following are just some samples, if you go back in the archived tread there are more:



And this for me also put up an interesting question about all the botehs in Beshir cloud band rugs. For a Turkmen design there are as far as I can see an extraordinary number of botehs around in this layout. And there certainly is a fluent transitions between some of the floral motifs I see as poppies and the botehs. Large scale production of poppies were as far as I understand started in colonial british India (the opiums wars), personally i mainly associate the boteh with Indian aesthetics (I may be totally wrong). Perhaps locally in Beshir the poppy heads and and botehs were somehow associated? Well I know - questions and wild speculations with no answers

best Martin
September 27th, 2012, 04:49 PM  15
Horst Nitz
Members

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5

Hi Martin

I find that side-by-side representation of natural and textile slit poppy capsules (September 26th, 2012, 09:16 AM) quite convincing.

Best, Horst
September 27th, 2012, 05:10 PM   16
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Horst and All

Yes I must admit I unfortunately haven't found especially the motif with slit capsule elsewhere (but it may hide somewhere in the low resolution photos) For me it also seems that this specific motif is not a decorative filling, but a figuration.

I can imaging a fair critique, going along the line that any of these floral design as easily could be Tulips (or any other flower). And of course identifying specific botanical plants in rug patterns may be futile. But still I can't help thinking that a flower like the poppy must have had a rather heavy symbolic connotation in central asia. And why do all red flowers have to be tulips? I wonder if it isn't somehow a retrospect correction on account of the problematic status of the poppies and present days view on drug addiction?

But this cool lady (I know I know 20th c.) here sure do have poppies on her trousers



best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 6th, 2012 at 03:04 PM.
September 27th, 2012, 06:10 PM   17
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Looking at the Anatolian Cintamani rugs it doesn't look like the poppy motif is as present there as in the Beshir rugs. Floral red borders yes, but more like Tulips or Carnations. Out of 6 rugs on this one (which I would think the oldest) I would perhaps see the poppies in the border:

best Martin
September 28th, 2012, 01:48 AM   18
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Looking around on the origin of the Boteh, I see that its not India, though it is of course certainly also an Indian pattern.
But its my suggestion that the Boteh on the Beshir cloud band rugs could be seen as directly linked to the other floral motifs on these specific rugs.

Here are four different cloud band Beshir rugs, and how I could see the floral motif going from flower in blossom to ripe flower/capsule to plucked singular capsule.



best
Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 28th, 2012 at 02:05 AM.
September 28th, 2012, 02:21 AM   19
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

I better underline that I pursue the poppy motif not because I am especially interested in mind altering plants (I restrain myself to beers )
But if in central asia, like in China, opium were associated with the dragon motif, then this association for me gives a straight forward explanation to the enigmatic composite of flower and snake in the Yilan Beshir cloud band rugs. The previous tread didn't really get to a point where this was explained, except for the turkmens general love of floral geometric patterning.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 28th, 2012 at 02:38 AM.
September 28th, 2012, 02:44 AM   20
Filiberto Boncompagni
Administrator

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 38

Hi Martin,
Quote:
Looking around on the origin of the Boteh, I see that its not India, though it is of course certainly also an Indian pattern.
In the long-winded discussion we had on the Boteh few years ago,
http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00072/boteh.htm

I argued that the Boteh has its roots in the use of vegetal ornamentation in decorative art. This use was common to different cultures through the ages (so we can say it has different origins), but it was particularly developed in Islamic Art. And it has no particular geographic origin although local developments (like in the Kashmir Shawls) reached, let’s say, a great popularity.

It seems that one of said origins was indeed the opium poppy.

Regards,

Filiberto
September 28th, 2012, 03:38 AM   21
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Thanks for the link Filiberto, very interesting tread. The tread also points out the Boteh motif didn't really hit Anatolia, and that the Boteh is one of the stylistic elements which separates the Ersari/Beshir from the other turkmen tribes.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 28th, 2012 at 05:45 AM.
September 28th, 2012, 05:09 AM  22
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Another side topic: I am generally calling all these rugs "Beshir". I know its an outdated term, I suppose "Middle Amu Darya" is what they are called today, but in the older books and on the net "Beshir" is more frequent. And I personally find the "MAD" label to broad, putting a highly inconsistent group of rugs together.

I don't know who originally labelled the finer/non-Gul Ersari rugs "Beshir" (actually the Ersari label I am also rather uncertain about), I suppose it might be Moskova?. As the "Beshir" rugs may represent a very local tradition, from around a specific town Beshir I have tried to geographically pinpoint the town. It could f.ex be interesting to see its possible placement on the trade routes. But I can't seem to find it. As Pierre mentioned in the old tread Beshir doesn't seem to be reported in any western sources, and Yuri Bregel doesn't even mention Beshir in his very thorough "An Historical Atlas of Central Asia".

The closest I can get is Bashir in Turkmenistan http://www.maplandia.com/turkmenistan/chardzhou/bashir/ located along the Amu Darya, I suppose that could be "Beshir" ?
It may in former times have had some importance at least there seem to be an old 12th .c mausoleum the Astanababa complex (thought I am not quite sure this is correct (wikipedia has this mausoleum located in Uzbekistan but I think its wrong))




Elana Tzareva in "Turkmen Carpets" pinpoints Hoffmeister cloud band rug to the "Town of Khalach of the Kerki district" (on google earth the town is called Halach) about 25 km southeast of Bashir. I wonder why she choses exactly Khalach for such a precise assignation?

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 28th, 2012 at 06:39 AM.
September 29th, 2012, 10:47 AM   23
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

There is probably nothing new for turkotekers in the following. But the macro-geographical situation of the Middel Amu Darya rugs is of course important in trying to understand them (and is certainly relevant regarding the many topics of the older tread)

The nomadic steppe cultures with all their diversities and complexed fluctuation are through the centuries/millenniums thriving in the a huge trans-eurasian steppe zone:



Parallel in south we have the Silk Road, a 6500 km trade route, or rather a network of routes of which there are written Chines historical accounts going back to 2th c. ad, and certainly archaeologically finds for tracing it even further back:



This network route is basically a mountain and dessert route interlinked with sedentary cultures which have controlled and thrived on the trade. A trade which of course were certainly not limited to the exchange of silk between China and Europe, I suppose there isn't much regarding our intellectual and material cultural heritage which could not be said to somehow be related to the silk road, everything from metallurgy to religious notions and our rugs have been distributed along this network, which of course is also directly linked to Persia and India.
I am not sure on this but I could imaging that a product, in orderly times were the routes wasn't disturbed by wars (or too many crazy Turkmens on horseback), could travel the route in less than 2 years. Recorded travel times in china are 10-40 km pr day. The goods were not accompanied all the way by the same people/merchants, but were sold, bought, and handed on in the larger cities along the route. Marco Polos famous travel is an exception. It is interesting that goods (including patterns, motifs and possible notions) have easily travelled across this vast area in just 2-3 years. A travel for a person in a time-period like this is of course long, but from the perspective of general stylistical artistic developments and cultural history, 2-3 years is actually an unmeasurable short timeframe.


The Amu Darya river and its oasis are situated literally in the middle of this. The term Middle Amu Darya kind of gives it self, so I have just approximately plugged Bashir into the map:



The fertile areas along Amu Darya (greek Oxus) has a long history of sedentary cultures going back at least back to 5th century. And in the broader area of the "Bactria–Margian a Archaeological Complex" sedentary cultures of Amu Darya goes back into the bronze age 2300 bc:



I don't remember the source but I read a beautiful description of the Amu Darya and its sedentary cultures (including Khiva, Bukkara and Samarkand) as the filter which the majority of nomadic north/south migrations and exchanges has been filtered through in the turbulent history of the steppe people and the rich urban cultures from Mesopotamian to Persia and Anatolia.

The rugs that we conventionally label as Beshir, are in my understanding rugs in which we see a degree of workshop stylistics, and thereby sedentary culture. For example the large rectangularly formats, which seems more appropriate in houses than in yurts, the Mirab-shaped prayer rugs which draws on an Islamic architectural context, the large floral patterns were influence from Heraz patterns seems very direct. I would also include the Ikat inspired patterns, Ikat silk weave I suppose must have been basically a city based weave product. The Yilan/cloud band rug, even with its own peculiarities (f.ex the multicolored field background) seems clearly to belong in this group of very decorative and refined rugs:



And now a bit back to my new hobbyhorse, the poppies. The opium poppy, Papaver somniferum, is a highly cultivated plant which origins back to 4000 bc Summerian culture. It is known in ancient greek culture, and sure is widespread in arabic and islamic cultures, both as medical plant and as a recreational drug (perhaps a consequence of the Korans direct prohibition against alcohol, and its omitance of forbidding opium), ending up in China via the silk road a long time before the British opium wars.
As a cultivated plant the poppy, and the seeding and harvesting of it, is of course linked to sedentary and non-nomadic cultures. In a sedentary culture which may have based a part of its economy on producing and selling this crop, the flower hardly have been demonized. And its possible use as a decorative motif, with or without any deeper symbolic connotations, doesn't seem unlikely to me. I would say that the fertile Amu Darya sedentary cultures placed in the middle of the vast ancient international trade routes is a plausible place to look for poppies as decorative motifs. And in the Beshir rugs, especially in the Yilan/cloud band rugs, it for me seems to be a part of what we are looking at.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; September 29th, 2012 at 10:57 AM.
September 29th, 2012, 11:06 AM   24
James Blanchard
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 23

Hi Martin,

One of my favourite articles on the MAD / Beshir discussion was written by Hans Konig (Hali 4/2). In that paper, he discusses "Ersari" rugs from that region and separates them into "Tribal", "Quasi-tribal" and "Non-tribal" design groups. He suggests that the "tribal" design pool includes those with more typical gul patterns similar to other Turkmen tribes. The "quasi-tribal" group would include rugs that might have been inspired by other local design traditions (e.g. "ikat" inspired, and others related to indigenous design traditions). The more "non-tribal" rugs refers to those with more floral patterns that he suggests were inspired by external rug design influences. These would include those with "mina khani" and "Herati" types of patterns. Interestingly, he places the "cloudband" design found on your torba to the "floral" design pool. He notes that each of these design pools likely existed contemporaneously within the same region.

He does note that:

Quote:
The main centres for the weaving of floral design rugs were located, as far as we know, in and around the settlements of Bashir, Burdalyk, Chakyr and Khojambas. The weavers were of predominantly Turkoman stock.
So, perhaps your rug is a classic "Burdalyk" rug, for all we know.

James
September 29th, 2012, 12:11 PM  25
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Thanks James, i will try to find Konigs article.
and Burdalyk is fine with me, I just google earthed it, 50 km northwest along Amu Darya from Bashir.
And you are right, interesting that he places the Yilan cloud band rugs in the group with external influences, as I suppose there are no precise candidates for which rug type should have been their model.
best Martin
September 29th, 2012, 01:09 PM   26
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

I think I have located the 5 city names we have up till now. They are on a ca 100 km line along the Amu Darya. Pinpointing the rugs from the 19th c. to specific small towns this close seems a bit questionable - unless there are some very good reasons for it. As Bashir is kind of located in the middle of the region, the old rug term "Beshir" for the workshop/city related rugs perhaps isn't such a bad label after all. I think I will hang on to it, always nice to be able to be conservative

September 29th, 2012, 01:30 PM   27
Steve Price
Administrator

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 51

Hi Martin

I'm pretty sure these rugs were attributed to Beshir, not as the place they were woven, but as the city through which weavings from that general area passed. Rather like Hamadan, which was the city through which rugs woven in several hundred nearby villages passed on their way to market

Regards

Steve Price
September 29th, 2012, 01:36 PM   28
James Blanchard
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 23

Or, since these were all in the Emirate of Bukhara, we could just call them "Bukhara" rugs.

James
September 29th, 2012, 01:58 PM   29
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

well James not even the term "oriental rugs" seems to be totally undisputed

And Steve I am sure your right about the rugs being sourced from area, and not a specific town. But still as we know from other discussions, stylistic elements and taste from the city-culture may have had a strong and decisive influence on the rug production if the rugs weren't made in a "tribal" environment (whatever that is) but made directly for sale.
So in that sense it may be interesting if one could specify the precise urban culture to which these rugs belonged. Though it probably may be impossible today to differentiate precisely between Bukara and "Beshir" urban culture.

best Martin
September 30th, 2012, 01:49 AM  30
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

I understand that James may be joking with the old rugdealer term "Bukhara", but he (and the term) has a point as Bukhara is only 200 km away from this region. And the region has along with Bukhara been included in an impressive line of great empieres and dynasties since the 7 th. c. - The Umayyads, the Samaniid, the Abbasid, the Seljuk, the Il-Khanids, The Timurids, and ending up in the 16th. Khanate and later Emirate of Bukhara. The city cultures of the Amu Darya must have been tightly related to Bukhara. This of course does not mean that there cant have been very local and complexed developments in the rugs, but Bukhara (and Samarkand) are the urban centers of the region.

And regarding the opium poppy and Bukhara there are documentations :

"Before the conquest of Central Asia, opium primarily entered Russia through Turkey and China. However, after the Central Asian states became part of Russia or vassals of the Russian Emperor, the region became our country's main supplier of the drug. Russian officials and explorers who visited Central Asia became acquainted with opium use and sometimes returned to Russia with new addictions. During the conquest of Asia in the late 19th century, Afghan opium began to be imported from Bukhara and Persia. According to some reports, more than a tonne of opium was imported from the Bukhara Khanate annually"
The Opium Problem in Afghanistan and Russia during the 19th and 20th Centuries, Nikita Mendkovich

I wonder if there anywhere is an account of an annual import/export around Bukhara of an extremly concentrated ton of red Tulips ?

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 6th, 2012 at 06:26 PM.
September 30th, 2012, 05:44 AM  31
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

As some here might have noticed I cant let go when a motif interests me, so I will just ramble on:

The main argument for seeing flowers instead of snakes/dragons in the Yilan Beshir cloud band rugs is the connecting stem in between the red curves of the motif. This specific version of an arrowed/striped stem seems distinctive to the Yilan Beshir rugs (I would still, as in the old tread, hold that the one oldest Yilan motif is without this stem):



One of the distinctive botanical features of the opium poppy is its hairy almost thorn-like looking stem:



To me there certainly is a beautiful graphical coherence between the poppies hairy stem and the Yilan Beshir stems rather peculiar arrowed stripes.
Here on the left we have the smaller versions of the striped stem with flowers/capsuels. I am rather lucky that my own little Torba seems to have the whole package, to me very explicit:



best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 1st, 2012 at 01:45 AM. Reason: (just found out the correct english spelling is "stem" not "stern"
September 30th, 2012, 02:42 PM   32
Frederik May
Members

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12
Just another exampel...

Hello Martin,

I simply love your explanation: Great approach! Some more poppies...from a main carpet...


Regards

Frederik
September 30th, 2012, 09:28 PM   33
Dinie Gootjes
Members

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7

Hi Martin,

I have read both your cloud band Beshir threads with much interest, great stuff. As others have said, your speculations are the best. Still, I am afraid you may be taking things a bit too far with your last thought about the hairy stem of the opium poppy. Most poppies do have hairy leaves and stems, including the perennial oriental poppy, Papaver orientale, which you can often see in gardens, and which some people call opium poppy:



But the true (annual) opium poppy is Papaver somniferum, which has practically hairless stems and leaves:



Some have a few hairs at the tops of the stems, but nothing much. The poppy pictures you have shown so far are mostly oriental poppies and maybe a field poppy (Papaver rhoas) as far as I can see. Sorry to trample all over your poppy garden .

Dinie
October 1st, 2012, 01:31 AM  34
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Dinie

I am certainly no Botanist so I might be wrong (and the poppies in the previous illustration were plucked a bit quickly on the internet), but according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaver_somniferum , and other online sources, the Papaver somniferum has many sub-species or varieties and cultivars, which all produces opium. I suppose this also includes varieties in the stem. The one wikipedia has as primary botanical illustration has a very hairy thorn-like stem:



Which sub-species that have been cultivated in the Amu Darya area, if there has been an old tradition which predates the Indian/British industrial production, I don't know (but I will off course insist that it has to have been red with a hairy stem (only joking)

You write that some have hair at the top close to the flowers, this actually fit rather well to another little peculiarity of the Yilan beshir floral motifs - as opposed to other floral motifs on other rugs they seem very focused on the flower heads/capsules, the leaves of the plant motif are almost totally absent.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 1st, 2012 at 02:30 AM.
October 1st, 2012, 02:19 AM   35
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

This one (which actually cropped were one of the samples in my previous poppy collage illustration) is red, has a long stem hairy at the top, and in small beautiful cursive writing Papaver somniferum



best Martin
October 1st, 2012, 02:56 AM  36
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

This zooming in on the botanical stem, gives me the opportunity to yet another close up from my Torba



As seen here the stem is "open", some of the arrow-stripes are missing, and the background color permeate the stem. This is not only on my Torba, I have noticed it on a lot of the Yilan Beshirs as something which seem to be a part of the general motif. Well of course this is part of what I see as a graphic representation of the hairiness.

best Martin
October 1st, 2012, 01:57 PM  37
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Frederik

It looks like a very nice main carpet you have posted, any chance you could post a photo of the whole rug?
It seems like the main field is a strange mixture of the Yiland motif (in the top of your photo) and a geometric perhaps Ikat inspired pattern (in the lower part of your photo). I haven't seen this before.

best Martin
October 1st, 2012, 08:44 PM  38
Dinie Gootjes
Members

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7

Hi Martin,

You are right that there are some forms of P. somniferum with a hairy stem, but the great majority, especially the ones used for opium culture, as opposed to garden varieties, are hairless or have at the most a few bristles at the top of the stems. The best yielding varieties also are said to be the lilac pink ones. Of course it is possible that they had red hairy stemmed opium poppies in the Amu Darya area, but whether it is likely?



Dinie
October 1st, 2012, 09:53 PM   39
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Dinie

I have been reading up a bit on the history of opium, just trying to educate myself, here is a resume of it (this wasn't meant as a polemic to you Dinie, I were just about to post it anyway, but with a small rearranging it actually also has an answer to your question )

The history of opium in Central Asia of course isn't as well documented as the European/Chinese. So I use Nikita Mendkovich again:

"In Persia, British India, Afghanistan and Central Asia during the 19th century, the opium poppy was used not just for medicinal purposes; in the countryside it served as the basis for production of dyes and as fodder for livestock. Opium latex was not just a narcotic or a cheap analgesic; it was also used for various other purposes: it was applied to an aching tooth or drunk for pain and indigestion. It was even used to calm small children. However, an error in dosage could lead to the death of an infant. Opium was not always used in its raw form; it was sometimes boiled to produce a narcotic drink (poppy tea). Almost no "complex" preparations based on opium were manufactured in Central Asia, and the raw product was used almost exclusively in medicine. The opium grown in Afghanistan was considered the best; it was exported to neighboring countries, including the Bukhara Khanate, which became a vassal of the Russian Empire in the late 19th century."

Basically Mendkovich says that opium poppy were grown and used in Central Asia, but the imported Afghan opium were considered better. And regarding Dinies question this tells me that the Central Asian Papaver somniferum weren't the best yielding variant, and therefor not the same variant of Papaver somniferum which is mas-produced today.
The Papaver somniferum which might have been the motif of the rugs must have been there pre-1850, and how it precisely looked may be impossible to find out today. The opium poppy which is used now in the illegal marked is a highly cultivated plant probably a direct descendant from the Indian/British mass-production which started before 1750. A lot of hair can have been lost in 250 years of professional cultivation which surely didn't have this hair as the focus of the cultivation.

(And interesting that the Opium Poppy were also used as dye, wonder what color that is in our rugs?)

The history of opium is actually a rather horrendous story of European trade and imperialism. Opium were in many ways the perfect product for the seafaring colonist trade In the far east. Low weight/high value, and a product when first introduced demanded a daily supply, to the price of a luxury item. 17-19th. pre-industrial Europe didn't really have many exchange products in large scale which were profitable to transport from Europa to China. But opium and tobacco did the job after it was put in production in the colonies. This resulting in the British mass-production of opium in India, which on the other hand in time lowered the price, but the enormous marked of China simply expanded, making opium almost an everyday commodity for even poor people (there are records that in late 19th opium were cheaper than food during hunger catastrophes) . The Chinese establishment and administration seeing the catastrophic results of the spreading drug addiction tried to restrict and band the trade - only with result of the 2 opium wars were England (with the help of Russia, Germany and US) enforced "free-trade" and "open marked" into China (to be fair to the British one has to mention that this was criticized as highly immoral and unjust by some members of the parliament and some missionaries (but this critique didn't change anything)).
The illegal opium marked as we know it today is a direct descendant of this european project of free-trade.

The old history of the opium poppy in islamic context is less dramatic. The drug has been widespread in all of the Islamic world (and were introduced to China perhaps as early as 4th c and no later than 12th.c via the silk road), but it seems to have been administrated in a rather cultivated way as medicine, or used recreational also in the upper-class , eaten or drank in solution. It seems to be the Dutch who in the early 17th by mixing the opium with tobacco and introducing the drug to their colonial (forced) workers in Java, starts the highly negative drug culture which we associate opium with today. Smoking concentrated opium is a lot stronger with immediate effect, and seems to be much more addictive than when eaten. By the mid-17th opium smoking were a wide spread upperclass luxury in China, which quickly spread as prices dropped down.

Regarding the smoking of opium Mendkovich writes this: "The practice in China was to make smokable opium (chandu), which was produced by enzymatic fermentation. Chinese immigrants subsequently took this method of processing opium with them to Europe and America"
To me it seems plausible that the comparatively new way of using opium, by smoking it, may also have reached Central Asia via China. The low weight of concentrated opium of course also made it a product which were suitable for the long caravan travels, and it doesn't take much imagination to imagine camel drivers and merchants needs of recreations along the route and its stops.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 2nd, 2012 at 01:40 AM.
October 1st, 2012, 11:09 PM   40
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Its of course important to remember that no floral motifs on the rugs are botanical correct representations. They are basically artistic and ornamental. In f.ex classical persian poetry tulips and poppies seems to be interchangeable broad metaphors connotating eternal love and death. The weavers of Amu Darya sure have taken themselves a lot of artistic freedom in their floral motifs, but I see no reason for the poppies not to be a part of their inspirational background. And when I focus on the poppies and their relation to opium (a metaphorical association that i don't find unlikely the weavers also could have made rather broadly, regardless of specific sub-variants of the poppy) its of course just an interpretation, which might explain some aspects of the rather enigmatic and isolated Yilan Beshir motif.
And Dinie sure is right that I might be stretching it to far - hopefully I have been clear in underlining that this is of course only speculations

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 2nd, 2012 at 12:13 AM.
October 6th, 2012, 06:19 PM   41
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Regarding the possible astrological aspect of the Yilan motif it is interesting that Ulughbek the 15th. c. Timorid ruler in Samarkand were also an important astronomer. A part of his work were based on al-Sufi’s Book of Fixed Stars :

"Ulughbek wrote a preface to his star catalogue and tables. The
preface gives practical and theoretical information in four parts. The first
part explains how to determine the length of years and months including
those of the Chinese and Uighur calendars. The second part explains how
to measure the positions of the stars. The third part is on determining the
positions of the seven planets. Included in this were chapters on
determining the Distance of Sun and the Moon from the Centre of the
World.
Also on the Moon was the section on “The Head and Tail of the
Dragon”. That is the Moon’s ascending and descending nodes, the places
where the path of the Moon’s orbit crosses the plane of the ecliptic and
eclipses of the Sun or Moon were likely to occur. Traditionally eclipses
are caused by a dragon eating the Sun, and contemporary astronomical
clocks in Europe marked this cycle with a dragon-shaped pointer.
Ulughbek shows how to predict eclipses of the Sun and the Moon.
This part of the book also gives the divisions of the signs of the Zodiac -
“The Twelve Celestial Houses”.
Ulughbek and his Observatory in Samarkand by Heather Hobden

So “The Head and Tail of the Dragon” have in historical time been a distinctive astronomical motif in Samarkand, which is as close as Bukhara to the Middle Amu Darya region.


Russian reconstruction of Ulughbeks observatory in Samakand.


Celestial Simurghs, Bukhara

best
Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 6th, 2012 at 06:33 PM.
October 8th, 2012, 02:11 AM  42
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

The observatory in Samakand is in itself a fascinating story, so I have to elaborate a bit. With Ulugh Begs observatory built in 1428 and its Madrasa built 1417 with the primary focus of astronomy, Samakand were in the 15th. c. actually the center of the world regarding a scientific approach to astronomy.



More than a hundred astronomers and mathematicians called in from all of the islamic world worked there. The work by Ulegh Beg the Zij-i Sultani is considered the greatest star catalogue between those of Ptolemy and Tycho Brahe. The observatory were destroyed by religious fanatics after Ulugh Begs death in 1449, but astronomical work continued into the 1470s.



The observatory had the height of Hagia Sophia. The building was bisected down the middle on the north-south axis by an enormous altitude quadrant - an estimated 63 metres along its edge and with a radius of 40.212 metres. The lower part of this instrument has survived as it was cut into the solid rock of the hill

The use of red dots as is not limited to the Book of fixed stars. Here a schematic illustration from egypt 13th c. depicting the cosmos, spheres and stars.



Ulegh Begs work Zij-i Sultani as a scholarly work didnt get circulated as widely as The book of fixed stars, probably because it didn't have the focus of the figurative illustrations of the star constellations. But Zij-i Sultani also seem to have used red dots in some of its illustrations as stars (or the sun):



In this early 15th c. Timorid horoscope depicting the zodiac there is an abundance of golden dots, stars and cloud bands. The Madrasa in Samakand also had a strong focus on producing horoscopes. And I find it very easy to imagine less luxury and expensively drawn horoscopes illustrated with red instead of gold:





(The biography of Ulegh Beg is in itself an example that astrology were taken deadly serious in 15th c. Samarkand. Ulegh Beg shared his interest in astronomy and cooperated harmoniously with his son Abd al-Latif in the observatory. But a specific stellar constellation read by them both predicted an unsolvable conflict between them, apparently ending up a self fulfilling prophecy with Abd al-Latifs rebellion and brutal assassination of his father)

A poetic metaphorical image of the stars as the flowers of the night sky seems straight forward (the flowers of paradise/heaven). Here is an Ottoman miniature of astronomers observing stars in floral formations:



To me all of this puts the Yilan Beshir rugs into a cultural context were the motifs of the rugs are not just a random and strange pattern invented or picked by nomadic Turkmens. The motif has a possible strong historical direct connection to the urban culture and history of Samarkand which is in very close proximity to the Middle Amu Darya region.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 8th, 2012 at 04:53 AM.
October 8th, 2012, 06:26 AM  43
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Hi Martin,

*In "Through Russian Central Asia" written by Stephen Graham, who visited Turkestan in 1914, page 59, I have run into this commentary:
".....on the roofs of the mosques (of Tashkent) are thousand of red poppies in bloom...."
If poppies even infested the roofs of buildings, they surely were not seldom in the fields of Turkestan, as you guessed.

Graham's following remarks about Bukhara ( A Russian protectorate which, in 1914, still had its own puppet Khan, unlike Tashkent, Kokhand and Samarkand which had been integrated in the Russian Empire and had already a sizable Russian population), could also be relevant for your present focus on the origin of "Beshir" rugs and bring water to your mill.

- When Graham visited Bukhara it was still a genuine «one-thousand-and-one-nights» city, a unique remain of the past still left quasi-untouched by European influence. The Russians had built their proper settlement several kilometers outside the walled old city. Despite the facts that the trans-caspian train reached it since the 1890’s, and that all the real power was already in Russian hands, Europeans made themselves rather inconspicuous in old Bukhara.
Thus business with Russia (including exporting rugs) was certainly not yet a priority for the population.

- Graham mentions having seen many rug shops in the bazaar, but also rug weavers of different ethnic origins, at work. He mentions specifically the "Sarts" (meaning the Tadjiks, indigenous to Bukhara, to which former Persian slaves had been assimilated) and Turkmen. This remark, Martin, confirms your countryman O. Olufsen's notes, who visited the region about twenty years earlier ("The Emir of Bukhara and his Country" ), who also mentioned that many rug-shops (concentrated in their own large bazaar) displayed rugs from a number of ethnic origins of which Olufsen names half a dozen, including Turkmen ("the best" in his opinion), but also Afghan, Kirgiz (the most basic), Persian etc..


The statement, found in a number of rug books, that Bukhara was not a center of rug production, is mainly based on J. Wolf's assertion: The man, an exalted, hardly trustworthy clergyman, was lucky enough to come back, with his foolish head still at its usual place, from a self-imposed «mission»*to Bokhara in 1844-1845. He had hardly any time (nor interest) for Muslim everyday-life while traveling to and fro Bukhara. (Bukhara streets and bazaars weren’t safe at the time for anyone trying to peddle Bibles to the natives while trying to save two British officers from Emir’s gaols).

IMHO the whole concept of "Middle Amu Darya" rugs and "Beshir" rugs might just be one more example of rug lore, an empty label, invented "di sana pianta" as Filiberto would say, to cover-up Rugdom’s ignorance about which people really wove these rugs and where. Reading Richard E. Wright ‘s very interesting paper «Bukhara and its Ersari» is highly recommended for anybody looking for objective informations about this topic.

I may err, but it seems very likely to me that the Khanate of Bukhara (to which some northern fringes of today's Afghanistan and the banks of the Midddle Amu-darya belonged during the whole nineteenth century), was actually producing rugs in several of its regions, including in Karshi (Olufsen dixit) and in the capital itself (Graham fixit) and woven, mainly for local usage, by several distinct ethnic populations, which still today produce rugs with clearly distinct styles.
Among them, of course, the Turkmen: mainly Ersari clans, but possibly also clans of the Salor-, Ata- or Saryk-tribes, living mainly (but not exclusively) near the banks of the Amu-darya. Their links to the khanate are well documented*(see Yuri Bregel’s «An Historical Atlas of Central Asia»).
But, next to the Turkmen, other rug makers were probably also found among Uzbek clans (the ruling class in the khanate, in part settled, in part semi-nomad), Khirgiz nomads (the main wool producers in the khanate), probably some Sarts ( So-called «Mountain Tadjiks» or urban ones as Graham's remark implies), perhaps also Karakalpaks (near the border with the Khiva khanate).*

It would seem logical to me, that, until the end of the nineteen century, at least, Bokhara (and two or three larger cities of the khanate, like Karshi) were the main rug emporiums, because they were the main markets. The Russian railway (Caspian Sea-Bukhara-Samarkand) made also the capital the most logical place, as export center to Tashkent, Samarkand, Russia or, later, Europe. The existence of another emporium, Beshir, lost somewhere on the Amu-darya banks, an obscure small city never named by any visitor, distant from the railway which crosses the Amu-Darya at Charjuy,( a well known city with a sizable bazaar) and from the main local markets makes truly no marketing sense to me.*

Browsing through a pretty large collection of pics of extant "Beshir" rugs, I got the strong feeling (under the control of much more knowledgeable people here on Turkotek) that the palette and/or the *motifs are often much closer to the work of Persians (Tadjik are Persian folks*and the region was at least as often part of Greater Persia than independent), or Kirghiz / Uzbecks than to the work of Turkmen .

- This is particularly true for "Beshir" prayer rugs: 19th century visitors, among them O’Donovan, claimed that Turkmen had no Mosques, at best only low mud platforms with neither wall nor roof, and had no use for prayer rugs, unlike Ottoman and Persians.*
Besides, the palette of "Beshir" prayer rugs (Much white in the field, about as much as red, with saturated blue, green, orange accents in the small motifs), is alien to the traditional Turkmen palette (with its dominant red, brownish red and indigo, while white and yellow are much less important). Neither are the small motifs typically Turkmen (pomegranates, poppies?, etc..).

- It is also true for your beloved "Beshir" cloud band rugs (I love them too): Sure, they share the strong dominance of a saturated red and indigo palette with typical Turkmen rugs, but they also share it with Kirgiz- and even with many Uzbek rugs.
*Worse, they show a sovereign contempt for strict geometry, which is just as un-turkmen as can be.
*Besides, Safavid Persian miniatures (sixteenth and seventeenth century) show examples of Persian rugs with "cloud band" motifs, other can be seen in Dutch paintings (seventeenth century), even though with a different palette (No red/indigo dominance).

*I do share your suspicion, Martin, that the "Beshir" cloud-band rugs were woven by non-turkmen people with a passion for poppies and a strong interest for sky and stars. This could point the finger towards urban Tadjiks again (they were the educated class in the Bokhara khanate, with a quasi-monopoly for religious-, administrative- and commercial jobs) or to Turko-Mongol clans still keeping some old traditions (the main deity for thirteenth-century Mongol tribes was Téngri, the Great Blue Sky): The fourteenth-century Il-khanid Mongols were tolerant and curious for other religions, but also rather pragmatical, when finally adopting Islam. IMHO it is quite possible that some Uzbek- and/or Kirgiz- clans kept pre-Islamic beliefs under a thin Islamic layer, and that these old traditions kept influencing their weavers.*

Best regards
Pierre
October 9th, 2012, 02:35 AM   44
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Pierre

Very interesting observations ( I of course love the poppies on the roofs of the mosques)

Regarding a possible Tadjik/Persian background of the Yilan Beshir rugs: Elena Zareva have been calling the rugs both "Abr" (Persian, cloud) and "Yilan" (Turkic, snake). Not sure how much to put into this ambiguity, it of course might be yet another sample of dealers simply just calling the rugs something. But then again it might have some truth on their ethnic background, regarding the motifs themselves both "cloud" and "snake" sure makes sense to me.
"Abr" seems also to be an alternative name for "Ikat". And Ikat weave is also somehow indirectly related as a "technical motif" (the pile weave imitating Ikat patterns) on a large group of the Beshir rugs.

And regarding O. Olufsen I have just got a copy of Esther Fihls "Exploring Central Asia", a very thorough, well illustrated and beautiful publication covering Olufsens journeys. http://tors.ku.dk/forskning/komparative/afhandlinger/centralasia/ I will look into it to see if there is anything specific regarding any of this. (and, Inshallah, I will be in Khiva, Bukhara and Samarkand in the spring. Who knows there might be poppies in bloom by then, I will have a look for hairy stems on the roofs )

best
Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 9th, 2012 at 03:33 AM.
October 11th, 2012, 02:40 AM   45
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

Here are two of Prokudin Gorskii fantastic color photos from 1905.

The first is an official Kush Beggi in Bukhara on a Beshir. If what we are seeing at the end of the rug behind the official are the fringes and flat weave then it must be a large palace size rug:



And second, a poppie field in Samarkand:



To me these looks like wild poppies. I can't tell which specific sub-specie. But they sure are red and beautiful

best Martin
October 11th, 2012, 08:47 AM   46
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Hi Martin,

O. Olufsen’s original book (1911 edition) is available for on-line reading and for free down-loading from
http://www.archive.org/stream/emirbokharaandh00olufgoog#page/n12/mode/2up

It contains a very high number of interesting black & white pictures, including those of a few rugs offered in the bazaar of Bokhara or used by Olufsen’s sitters.
If you are in a hurry, or weary of the 600 pages book, go directly to pages 529 and following, which describe the «Tim-i- kurdjum» (woven saddle-bags bazaar) and the «Tim-i-Gilam», (carpet bazaar).

A choice of a few interesting excerpts:

page 532: «....Here (in the Tim-i-Gilam) we find the carpets with nap (gilam) both from Bokhara and the neighbouring countries, Persia, Turkestan, Afghanistan, Belutshistan, and from the Khirghiz in Turkestan, carpets without nap (pallast) generally with a white ground and decorated with variously colored stripes or geometrical figures and splendid red, blue, black or white felt carpets (kighis), sometimes with patterns in geometrical designs, all the latter made by the Kirghiz tribes....»

page 532-533: «...the carpets made in Bokhara and, as the others, on primitive looms in the open air, are long and narrow and in quality rank between the gilam of the Kirghiz and the Yomuts; they can neither as to solidity nor beauty be compared with those of the Turkomans or Persians, but they surpass considerably those of the Kashgar, Afghan, Belutshe and common Kirghiz carpets. The colours of Bokharan gilam are mostly brown or red with black, yellow, green or white geometrical patterns. A special sort, used as prayer carpets in the mosques are, as a rule red with a mosque-pistak in white....»

Attached, two of these well known «Beshir» prayer rugs in which you may identify poppy flowers (FIG 1) or poppy fruits, unless you’d fancy to call them pomegranate fruits (FIG 2). One could also easily see poppies in the "Beshir" khali FIG 3, no?.

FIG 1: "Beshir" namazlyk rug. XVIII. 188X96. P. Hoffmeister, Turkoman Carpets in Franconia.


FIG 2: "Beshir" namazlyk rug. XIX. 182X106. E. Tzareva, Rugs from Central Asia.


FIG 3:"Beshir" khali. XIX. 253X114. W. Loges, Turkmenische Teppiche.


A propos poppies again, page 465, Olufsen mentions drinking- and smoking of opium as being a commun «pernicious means of enjoyment» in Bokhara. A clear case of solidarity among Danes, I suppose


Pages 289, 299, 329, 360, 373, 452, of Olufsen’s book one can see several black & white rug pictures, including a prayer rug, a couple of Turkmen- or Karakalpak rugs, but alas no cloud band «Beshir».

Page 204: After a trip of the author to Khiva: «... The best carpets in the world are said to be the Tekinian (sic) from Merv, woven by the Turkoman tribe of Trekins (re-sic). Those of the Yomut come after these in quality....This classification is at any rate the adequate one in central Asia, where I had opportunity of seeing thousands of these carpets. Those who have not seen the real tekinian silk carpets, have still something to live for. The beautiful patterns and the fine juxtaposition of colors and splendid workmanship are great delight to the eyes...»

What on earth hindered that s.o.b from making a few dozens good photos, instead of keeping us salivating?

Pages 281-301: Listing and describing the main ethnic groups in the Bokhara khanate, Olufsen mentions other rug weavers, in addition to the already mentioned Turkmen, Khirgiz and no further identified weavers working in Bokhara city. Arabs, which according to Olufsen, descend either from the first conquerors or from captives herded to the region by Timur-Lan. They lived in the Bokhara area and on the Amu-darya, mostly in clay houses and are especially engaged in carpet weaving, as well as cattle and horse breeding.


Best regards
Pierre
October 11th, 2012, 09:04 AM   47
Joel Greifinger
Members

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 29

Quote:
instead of keeping us salivating?
Hi Pierre,
Speaking of which, the link isn't working.

Joel Greifinger
October 11th, 2012, 09:10 AM  48
Filiberto Boncompagni
Administrator

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 38

Hi guys,
Now the link is working.
Filiberto
October 11th, 2012, 09:23 AM  49
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Quoting Martin "it must be a large palace size rug".

Yes, and other examples of such huge palace rugs are found in books of European visitors of Bokhara, Khiva and Charjuy.
Most likely woven in city workshops, for example in the Khans' own workshops housed in their palaces. (A fact mentioned by several visitors). The weavers' ethnic group is anybody's guess. Could just as well be the ladies of the harem or slaves for all we know.

Pierre
October 11th, 2012, 09:29 AM   50
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Greifinger View Post
Hi Pierre,
Speaking of which, the link isn't working.

Joel Greifinger
Ever heard of a sophisticated technique called "suspense" Joel

Pierre
October 11th, 2012, 11:30 AM   51
Joel Greifinger
Members

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 29

Hi Pierre,

I thought suspense made everyone salivate.

Joel
October 12th, 2012, 03:39 AM   52
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Pierre

Thanks a lot for the Olufsen quotes. Olufsens statement "Those who have not seen the real Tekinian silk carpets, have still something to live for" sure is a terrible tough one.

Personally I am aesthetically in agreement that the Tekke/Teke rugs (as it of course must be them Olufsen is referring to) are among the most beautiful rugs in the world. Of course a modern day view of the Turkmen rugs would give the Salor rugs the first price of being the finest, but that might be slightly influences by their rarity. And they perhaps wasn't around Bhukara in the late 19th, already shipped of to europe or mixed into the Tekke label.

But a Tekke silk rug? Tekke main carpets sure can have an extraordinary almost silk-like shine in the wool. Fine Tekke main carpets were not terrible rare in Europe in the late 19th, so they can't really be the candidate for "something to live for" in the writings of an ethnographic explorer. Some of the fine Aina and Salor Gul Chuvals have some amount of silk in them. In Torbas and Mafrashs silk also occur, but only in small amounts as highlights. An all silk Tekke carpet is not something I have heard of, but if it have existed (why not? the silk were there and used in the rugs, and we all know how silk fade and corrode) I am sure it must have been out of this world and something to live for. On the other hand it somehow seem a bit unlikely that a late 19th production of Tekke silk rugs shouldn't have been picked up and celebrated by the Russian/european trade?

If Olufsen wasn't referring a bit unprecise to f.ex part-silk Tekke Chuvals, but to actually all-silk Tekke rugs, and he didn't save one - then it is almost to cry for.

Best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 12th, 2012 at 04:11 AM.
October 12th, 2012, 04:51 AM   53
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

And Pierre

Of course there is no way around it, I have to admit that pomegranate tree is also a strong candidate as the floral motif in the Beshir rugs Here is once again a photo of Prokudin Gorskii (I think this one is from Khiva):



I would perhaps argue that the pomegranates should be seen as the motif in larger ornamental tree-like patterns where there also is an emphasis on the leaves and branches like in your niche rug FIG 2:



While the motifs which emphases the flower on a stem, like your FIG 1, I would interpret as poppies:



All of course just subjective interpretations.

best
Martin
October 12th, 2012, 08:31 AM   54
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Alas, Martin, it seems very likely that large Turkmen rugs with pure silk pile did indeed exist and that we just never got the chance of meeting any. (Some posthumous back-side kicking of nineteenth century travelers would be fully deserved).

O. Olufsen is not the only traveler mentioning large silk Teke rugs, as this quote from E. O’Donovan’s « The Merv Oasis. Travels and adventures east of the Caspian during the years 1879-80-81. Five months’ residence among the Tekes of Merv. Vol II. Page 352-..» shows:

«...Each girl generally manufactures two extra fine carpets to form part of her dowry when she marries, when this has been done she devotes herself to producing goods for the market at Meshed and Bokhara where the Turkoman carpets fetch much higher prices than those manufactured in Khorassan or beyond the Oxus..." ( thus in the Bokhara khanate).

«.... They (one type of Teke rugs) are generally twice the size of the ordinary ones (made from sheep wool, camel hair and some cotton) and are almost entirely of silk. They fetch enormous prices. I have known as much as 50£ given for one measuring eight feet square....»

Note: the average cost of a Teke spouse was then around 40£ and a good horse cost around 20£.

Best regards
Pierre
October 12th, 2012, 01:29 PM   55
James Blanchard
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Galafassi
Alas, Martin, it seems very likely that large Turkmen rugs with pure silk pile did indeed exist and that we just never got the chance of meeting any. (Some posthumous back-side kicking of nineteenth century travelers would be fully deserved).

O. Olufsen is not the only traveler mentioning large silk Teke rugs, as this quote from E. O’Donovan’s « The Merv Oasis. Travels and adventures east of the Caspian during the years 1879-80-81. Five months’ residence among the Tekes of Merv. Vol II. Page 352-..» shows:

«...Each girl generally manufactures two extra fine carpets to form part of her dowry when she marries, when this has been done she devotes herself to producing goods for the market at Meshed and Bokhara where the Turkoman carpets fetch much higher prices than those manufactured in Khorassan or beyond the Oxus..." ( thus in the Bokhara khanate).

«.... They (one type of Teke rugs) are generally twice the size of the ordinary ones (made from sheep wool, camel hair and some cotton) and are almost entirely of silk. They fetch enormous prices. I have known as much as 50£ given for one measuring eight feet square....»

Note: the average cost of a Teke spouse was then around 40£ and a good horse cost around 20£.

Best regards
Pierre
Hi all,

I have to say that until we see any evidence of the existence of one of these fabulous "silk Tekke" rugs, I will remain quite skeptical. The quotation above from O'Donovan suggests that they were being manufactured at that time (c. 1880), which means that any such production would have continued during the ensuing years/decades. We have all manners of weavings from that region and from that time period, including fine silk embroideries and other weavings presumably made by Tekke groups. Moreover, there are plenty of silk rugs from other weaving groups and areas that would be that old. So, where did the "silk Tekke" carpets go? Among all rugs and carpets, one would have thought that these would have been kept carefully and therefore available for future generations.

Maybe that is what the real "Princess Bokhara" was - the unicorn of Central Asian carpets.

James
October 12th, 2012, 04:50 PM  56
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Well, James, it is indeed possible that Olufsen and O’Donovan just invented the silk Tekes, they would not be the first travelers to «improve» their story a bit. But both seem highly competent people, well documented and spent a long time «in the field». Surely much more trustworthy than clowns like Vambery, de Cholet or Wolf who, especially the first one, have often been quoted in rug books as "Turkmen authorities".

I can offer no good explanation for the fact that no such rug has survived, except that the production of silk rugs was perhaps very limited, (an exclusive speciality of the (wealthy) Merv Teke?) and could not compete, neither in terms of production-capacity, nor in easy access to European markets, with ninety century Persian-, Moghol or Ottoman silk-rug production ?
Best regards
Pierre
October 12th, 2012, 06:18 PM  57
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

I have to put in a small defense for Olufsen. For his time his expeditions to Central Asia were very serious ethnographic and scientific expeditions. Including collecting more than 500 objects (unfortunately only a few rugs) in the whole spectra of etnografica which are now in the collections of the danish museums, producing maps, and collecting botanical material (which means I will have to find out if they brought a Papaver somniferum with them to DK, it might still be in the university's botanical collection) and I have to recommend Esther Fihls great 2 volume publication once more : http://tors.ku.dk/forskning/komparative/afhandlinger/centralasia/

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 12th, 2012 at 07:06 PM.
October 12th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #58
James Blanchard
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Galafassi
Well, James, it is indeed possible that Olufsen and O’Donovan just invented the silk Tekes, they would not be the first travelers to «improve» their story a bit. But both seem highly competent people, well documented and spent a long time «in the field». Surely much more trustworthy than clowns like Vambery, de Cholet or Wolf who, especially the first one, have often been quoted in rug books as "Turkmen authorities".

I can offer no good explanation for the fact that no such rug has survived, except that the production of silk rugs was perhaps very limited, (an exclusive speciality of the (wealthy) Merv Teke?) and could not compete, neither in terms of production-capacity, nor in easy access to European markets, with ninety century Persian-, Moghol or Ottoman silk-rug production ?
Best regards
Pierre
Hi Pierre,

I am not in the position to comment on the overall accuracy of O'Donovan's reports, but it does seem highly unusual that others that have focused on Turkmen rugs and textiles since that time, even within a few decades, have not seen or mentioned silk Tekke carpets. Perhaps they were rare objects even at the time, but then it seems a bit surprising that an observer without a special interest in carpets would have noticed. Moreover, O'Donovan's report does seem to suggest that these were a fairly regular part of the Tekke rug output of the time.

James
October 13th, 2012, 03:36 AM   59
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

I agree with James that it is very strange that none of the Tekke silk rug have survived. But of course the history of central asia is turbulent and lots of artistic treasures have been lost.

And specific rug types do sometimes disappear. This actually seems to be the case with the Yilan Beshir rugs.
The dating of the rugs are of course always guestimates, but I don't think I have seen any Yilan rug that were dated "early 20th". One can only speculate what happened, did the weavers disappear? did the marked disappear? I would say its fair to speculate that it must be somehow related to the russian colonization. I have heard one plausible explanation: the weavers of the Beshir/Bashir region being Ersaris who migrated to Afghanistan, and the area being re-populated. But this of course leaves the question why didn't the Ersaris simply continue with the Yilan motif in Afghanistan?
Another explanation could be the Beshir rugs being aimed at a rather small local urban marked in the Emirate of Bukhara, and this marked vanished, taste changed under Russian influence or the Beshir rugs were outcompeted in price by the rug types the Russian chose to put into rationalized production. Or perhaps a combination of both, the weavers leaving the area, returning to a nomadic production, and adapting their weave to the marked of Afghanistan, abandoning the urban Yilan motif in this process. But than again this seems a bit unsatisfying, as Pierre pointed out the Beshir rugs have a rather special (and beautiful) color palette, would the weavers also abandon such fundamental aesthetics in a migration? Well I suppose some serious structural analyzing could clear up the relation between the Ersari and Beshir, but thats beyond me.

If the Tekke silk rugs were a small extreme luxury production in Merv, aimed at an even smaller islamic upperclass marked, then the violent Russian occupation of Merv could have been a fatal accidental blow of this production (perhaps a few workshops being destroyed, the owners and weavers fleeing or dead). And Olufsen could have bumped into the very last samples of a production that had already stopped. In defense of Olufsen not bringing a silk carpet back home we have to give him that the aim of his expedition was scientific ethnographic in the broad sense of his time, and not aimed at the collection of luxury art objects.

In the turbulent exchanges between nomadic raids and the urban cultures the fragile silk rugs may have been target of some rough and destructive treatment. The same goes for the russian occupation and the migrations it started.
There is no technical reason why the Turkmen shouldnt have produced all silk rugs, actually I would say its also strange to imagine that they in an urban setting shouldn't at some point have tried to walk the line to the outmost perfection of an all silk rug. But I suppose we will never know for sure, it would be kind of a miracle if a Tekke silk rug turned up by now.

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 13th, 2012 at 03:56 AM.
October 13th, 2012, 04:44 AM   60
Filiberto Boncompagni
Administrator

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 38

I agree that the lack of any surviving "silk Tekke" rugs is highly suspicious.

Then consider the fact that if few still exist, they should be easy identifiable because their red should be from cochineal. Madder can’t be used for dyeing silk, right?

Regards,

Filiberto
October 13th, 2012, 05:21 AM   61
Filiberto Boncompagni
Administrator

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 38

Hi Martin,

Quote:
And specific rug types do sometimes disappear. This actually seems to be the case with the Yilan Beshir rugs.
OK, they disappeared for some reason but the pre-existent production did not. The “silk Tekke” rugs, instead, are nowhere to be seen.
Which is very odd: if they were so expensive, they must have been treasured even more than other rugs, and they should have survived at least among some wealthy Khan's possessions.

My explanation of the mystery: it’s a rug lore. When O’Donovan and Olufsen visited the carpet bazaars, it’s easy to imagine that some merchant tried to sell them their wares. Rugs made of silk, of course!
Heck, it happened to me, in Jordan: they tried to sell me a “silk Tekke”. I was perfectly aware that it wasn’t silk, even if at the touch the wool was so soft and silky. Nevertheless I bought it, one of my best buys…

Regards,

Filiberto
October 13th, 2012, 05:52 AM   62
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

Staying on the topic of silk (leaving the mysterious Tekke - and staying with the Beshir Yilan rugs) the relation between the silk Ikat patterns and the pile weave patterns is an interesting subject (which on the other hand could widen out to a speculative relation which could involve all of the turkmen gul patterns, but lets wait with that one)

This pattern is as far as I have seen one of the most direct translations between the two fundamental different weave techniques:



And interesting that its kind of difficult to say which of the patterns is the "original".
This not uncommon pile rug type, which is also labeled loosely Ersari/Beshir seems to me stylistically different, but related to the Beshir rug group I would place the Yilan Beshir in.

I still, as in the old tread, have the felling that the strange organic floating layout of both the foreground and background in the Yilan Beshir motif could be related to another weave and coloring technique than pile weave.

I haven't found any old Ikat patterns which match, but here are a couple of new ones which could be seen as related, sorry for the corny bag:



best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 13th, 2012 at 06:13 AM.
October 13th, 2012, 07:56 AM  63
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Hi James, Martin, Filiberto and compania bella.

You are right Filiberto, madder is not recommended for dyeing silk since its light-fastness is borderline on this fiber (although it does dye silk OK).
on silk, Lac and Cochineal give better results (and significantly different shades). Moshkova's interviews of TransCaspia weavers showed that twentieth-century Turkmen had forgotten (or never knew) the specific dyeing conditions suited for cochineal. One can therefore suppose that they had to buy the dyed fiber (or to unravel used silk clothes or silk clothes "fallen from the camel" ?).

I also warmly agree with you all, that such precious items should have been treasured and protected and that the lack of any extent Teke silk rug is suspect.

As you say, Filiberto, rug lore was (and is) endemic and G. Bonvalot (1), with many others, warned travelers about it: «....Pas un seul individu n’a avoué être incapable de me fournir un renseignement. Ces réponses faites au hasard, sans le moindre souci de vérité, peignent bien le Bokhare en particulier et l’asiatique en général.Du moment que vous les questionnez, ils supposent immédiatement que leurs intérêts son en jeu, et , sans réfléchir ils répondent un mensonge dont ils rient plutard avec leur interlocuteur, si ce dernier leur en démontre l’absurdité. cette tournure d’esprit n’est pas la moindre difficulté pour le voyageur dans l’Asie centrale....»
In short, it was difficult to trust informations given by Central Asian people, since when they don’t have a clue they invent something, anything, on the spot.

I agree with James, both O’Donovan’s and Olufsen’s records suggest a regular production of Teke silk rugs, but Olufsen seems to imply that some (European) people may never have seen any and O’Donovan mentions their extremely high price.

My guess is that only a small number of upper-class Merv Teke families were able to make the up-front investment necessary to buy the (dyed) silk from Bukharan merchants, even in the early eighties: From the 1870’s onward the Merv Teke lost many customers for their most lucrative business, enslaving hapless Persians (Russia had the slave markets closed in Khiva, Tachkent and Samarkand, and, in theory, also in Bukhara). After 1884 the Merv Teke were even told to stop alamans (slave hunting) completely. The number of Teke maidens who could have afforded to weave such huge silk pieces as dowry must have gone dramatically down. Besides, even during its most successful period, the Merv area counted less than 200 000 people (2) including many de-facto slaves and about 20% various «casual arrivals from the Akhal Teke tribes, the Saryks, the Salors, the Atas, the Mahtems, the Yomuds, the Midjiors (O’ Donovan’s Mjaours), the Khodjas, the Shiks and, lastly twenty-six Jewish families...» (3).
Most Merv Teke families were very poor: O’ Donovan mentions that many could not even afford tea (mandatory when welcoming a guest in one's yurt). Much less a horse (mandatory to participate to lucrative «alamans») not to mention the money required to weave a fancy silk rug, I suppose.

That Olufsen noticed the silk rugs despite their rarity is perhaps due to the fact that he was a ruggie. Indeed, he does claim a good knowledge of rugs, of which he saw «thousands». He brought a good number of rugs back home too, which are now in a Copenhagen museum (right Martin ?). One could only suppose that he saw silk rugs when he met the Khivan- and Bukharan rulers in their palaces, as he did.

O’Donovan, during his stay at Merv, reached a very high social status (he was named a member of the Merv upper council!), because some Teke leaders suspected that he was a covert agent of the Foreign Office and they were looking for a protector against the approaching Russian army. He was therefore a frequent guest in the yurts of the khans and elders. Again, that is were he might have seen the hypothetical silk rugs, certainly not in the market, since his meticulous description of the weekly Merv bazaar does not mention any rug merchants (confirmed by de Blocqueville. People mainly wove for their own «household», carpets were exceptional buys). O’Donovan seems to have cared enough to ask for their price though.

Anyway, another Rugdom question which will probably never be clarified.

It is surely a frustration for many ruggies that so few serious nineteenth century travelers bothered to describe rugs and even less to mention their weaver’s tribal identity. Worse, when they did give us some firsthand informations, they did not necessarily get the attention of many rug experts. The affair of the Teke silk rugs is but one example. Another is G. Capus’ mention (4) and description of rug-making by Ata Turkmen living between the lower Amu-darya and the Syr-darya. Another still is H. Moser’s firsthand claim (5) that carpets made by the Pendj-deh Saryk were highly praised, which did not stop Dudin, later, from teaching us that they only started weaving rugs after the Russian conquest of the area.

Martin, I fully agree with you that Bokharan silk Ikat and many «Beshir» rugs seem somehow related both in pattern and palette. Which does not help much the thesis of those in favor of the equation "Beshir = "Ersari".

Best regards
Pierre

(1) G. Bonvalot. «En Asie Centrale, de Moscou en Bactriane. 1884. Page 117.
(2) H. de Blocqueville. «Quatorze mois de captivité». 1861. Pages 247-248.
(3) Alikhanov’s 1882 letter to his superior Aminoff, chief of staff. Reporting about his mission at Merv. Cited by Ch. Marvin in «The Russians at Merv and herat. 1883.
(4) G. Capus. «A travers le royaume de Tamerlan», 1892 edition.
Discussion in Turkotek: http://www.turkotek.com/salon_00132/s132_t2.htm
(5) H. Moser. «Durch Zentral-Asien, die Kirgizensteppe, Russish-Turkestan, Bochara, Chiwa, das Turkmenenland und Persien». 1883-1884. Page 330.
October 14th, 2012, 02:06 AM   64
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

Olufsen description were he judges the local Bukhara rug production to "in quality rank between the gilam of the Kirghiz and the Yomuts" for me kind of rules out that he is talking about the Beshir workshop rugs (of which he brought back a beautiful niche rug stylistically slightly finer than Pierres fig 1&2. He describes the niche rug as being bought in Bukhara, but he doesn't says it is produced there (my scanner is down will post it later if we need it)). Of course dependent on by which criteria Olufsen ranked quality, but I would imagine that an 1890 view point would rank the workshop aesthetics higher than the tribal Yomut.

This is of course totally subjective, but my felling is that "the Black dessert fragment" is way older than the 19th. c. and our written historical sources:



From my point of view this fragment could represent an old refined urban rug aesthetic which is on par with the splendid Timurid architecture of Bukhara and Samarkand (please please Pierre find something in your miniatures ). The possible connection to astronomical notions and the cultural conventions of their representation for me sustain this. The same goes for its possible connection to silk and poppies, also sedentary and urban products.

The Ethnicity of the weavers, and the question of the motif even being exclusive for a single either nomadic or urban group is of course open. The small format rugs, especially the complete bag from the russian collection, perhaps suggest an tribal/normadic adaption, while the larger rectangular formats perhaps suggest a later mid-19th workshop adaption.



well, as always with the rugs, no easy and conclusive answers

best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 14th, 2012 at 03:40 AM.
October 18th, 2012, 01:41 AM   65
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Hi all,

Provided that one believes (as I do) that «Beshir» is a fantasy name used to designate different types of carpets, woven by various ethnic groups living in the Bokhara khanate, including urban ones, and not (only) by more or less «Bukharized» Ersari Turkmen living near an obscure middle Amu-darya village, one could venture the theory that the «Beshir» namazlyk (1) below is a rare (and beautiful) prayer rug, woven by the same people who made the Ylan «Beshir». The picture is Martin’s courtesy.

FIG 1: Beshir namazlyk. XVIII-XIX ? Formerly in C.O. Richardson Coll.



While there is a formal similarity with the classical, «Beshir» namazlyk rugs, its palette is different, with its large indigo- and red fields, from their usual white- and red fields. The palette is reminiscent of an Ylan- «Beshir» and so are the many red stars in its indigo sky, which remind me of the multitude of red dots of Ylan-«Beshir».

To me, all its motifs seem much more sophisticated, more similar to motifs of classical Persian urban rugs than to those usually found in «Beshir» namazlyk. Stephen Graham claims that urban Tadjik also wove rugs (2), if this information is correct this carpet would make a credible candidate as a Bukharan Tadjik job.

(1) The rug was described in an older paper by J. Bailey. It was part of C. O. Richardson's collection in the 1920’s and considered the best extant «Beshir» namazlyk.
(2) Stephen Graham. Through Russian Central Asia. 1914 ed.
October 19th, 2012, 12:47 AM   66
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Pierre

The Ricardson prayer rug is fascinating, and sure has a lot of non-turkmen features. The fine inscription being one of them. It doesn't look like a date, I would be much surprised if it is not persian:



And your new rug category "Bukharan Tadjik" is great, will be interesting to see how it catches on and which rugs will carry this label onwards

best Martin
October 19th, 2012, 08:23 AM   67
Rich Larkin
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 27

Hi Martin, et al,

That inscription looks like Arabic to me. "Made by Ajral" is my best guess. If there is a small dot hovering above that last bowl-shaped stroke (I can't quite tell), it would be "Ajran."

BTW, Pierre, thanks for posting that rug. I'd never seen it. Fascinating to contemplate its connection to the so-called "Beshir" rugs. I agree with your position that the name stands for a whole bunch of rug types from the region.

Rich
October 20th, 2012, 01:32 AM   68
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Thanks Rich, you are probably wright about the inscription being arabic, and it also fits with Pierres Bukharan Tadjik, arabic being the language of literate urban minorities since the 8th c until the Russian conquest the region http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Asian_Arabic

The most direct resemblance between the Richardsons prayer rug and the Yilan Beshir rugs are the red stars on blue background color.



I suppose the stars placed in the top of prayer rugs is a rather straight forward image of heaven. And it of course sustain that the numerous red stars on the Yilan rugs might simply be what they look like, stars in the night sky:



best Martin
October 20th, 2012, 04:10 AM   69
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Hi Rich and Martin,

Indeed the inscription points the finger to an urban weaver. Even more if it is Arabic.

Olufsen is not the only visitor telling us that the literate class in Bukhara khanate were mainly the Tadjik (who spoke Persian, but often knew Arabic due their knowledge of the Koran) and the Jews.
Even in smaller cities of the khanate, the cadi (judge) was usually a Tadjik. Teachers in Koranic schools, administrators, including the prime minister, were also mostly Tadjik. The province governors, the military officers and their best troops were Uzbek, as were most important landowners. The akh-sakhal (the mayor, so to speak) in most villages and small cities was mostly an Uzbeck too. Uzbeck spoke a Turkish dialect (djagatai) and Olufsen tells us that many did not even understand Persian (even less Arabic except among the rulers, I guess). Turkmen spoke a slightly different version of djagatai and only few of them (educated in Bukhara) were literate and those were found among the leading families.

Another point to consider is that weaving rugs was strictly a women’s job for the Turkmen and the Kirghiz, (perhaps for the Uzbek and Tadjik too, but I found no mention of it) and that even in the capital, very few women received any education, and then only girls of the upper class. Soon after the arrival of the Russians in Turkmenistan, examples of rug workshops using male workers (young boys) became known, but there is no evidence (known to me) that such workshops existed before the Russian conquest.

An inscribed rug (whether the inscription is in Arabic, Persian or Djagatai) must have been a rare occurrence at the time and indeed points the finger towards an urban workshop, with weavers working from a cartoon, or points toward the job of ladies of a literate upper class family (thus quite likely to be Tadjik).

Best regards
Pierre
October 20th, 2012, 09:05 AM   70
Pierre Galafassi
Members

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 58

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Andersen
... interesting that the Opium Poppy were also used as dye, wonder what color that is in our rugs?
According to Dr D. Cardon (1) at least one variety of poppy (Californian poppy) contains a natural dyestuff of the carotene family. One can assume that Turkestan poppies too contained carotenoid dyes, since these are very widespread in plants (including crocus, tomatoes, carrots, Gardenia...). They give yellow to orange-red shades, have a rather poor light fastness on wool, silk and cotton, too poor to be successful as rug dye (although they have been identified in a few classical rugs by Dr M. Boehmer), and give mediocre wet-fast dyeing on cotton, silk and wool, without the need for any mordant (so-called direct dyes).
Despite their mediocre wet- and light-fastness, carotenoid dyes obtained from various sources have been extensively used for textiles, especially in China.

One can suppose that the Turkestan poppy flowers were used as a yellow or orange dye for (lower quality?) cotton textiles.


(1) Dr. D. Cardon, Natural Dyes, page 301-305
Best regards
Pierre
October 20th, 2012, 10:20 AM   71
Rich Larkin
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 27

Hi Martin, Pierre, et al,

I'm backing off the opinion the inscription is Arabic. The word on the right side of the mihrab, shown here:
عمل
is Arabic, and means "made by" or "work of," or such. However, running it through a Farsi-English translator online (Al Hamdulillah!) yields about the same meaning. I've seen it in other rugs as well (and other artifacts), so it must be a widely used term to identify an artisan or craftsman. I assume it is a borrowing in Farsi from Arabic, as the languages are not closely related. Very possibly, it also appears in other regional languages to serve the same function. (Google didn't provide a Djagatai translator, so no results on that one.)

So, it seems we are back to the proposition that it could be any of the regional languages. The words on the left side of the mihrab don't look familiar as Arabic. My new guess is that it is a name. The first word can be read as "Bella" (the Farsi translator rendered "Belle"). The second word provides the consonants equivalent to "j-r-n". Languages in this type of script don't generally indicate vowels, but something like "Jaran" is plausible. So there we have it, "Bella Jaran," no doubt a lovely young woman, and certainly a crackerjack weaver. (I'm guessing Bella's accomplishments haven't yet reached Wikipedia.)

Pierre, your notion that it might be the work of a weaver using a cartoon seems reasonable. Parts of it have a spontaneous feel that doesn't suggest that method, but presumably, weavers were able and perhaps accustomed to employ cartoons for particular parts of the weaving, but free to improvise in other parts.

BTW, does anyone know the present whereabouts of the Richardson rug? Or whether there are other known examples similar to it?

Rich
October 20th, 2012, 10:42 AM   72
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

well Rich even if we can't read the inscription, I would still say that its beautiful and precisely rendered letters within the few knots it uses sure puts us out of the tent and into the city.
Regarding other comparable pieces I do have a recollection of seeing another similar, but I might be wrong
best Martin
October 20th, 2012, 11:34 AM   73
Rich Larkin
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 27

Hi Martin,

I'm not picking a fight, but I would think we lack sufficient information about weaving and rug production for the period and the region to know whether "tent vs. city" is the most apt model within which to organize the production. Certainly, there was settled urban production, but I have a feeling there was also more to the nomadic element than simple weavers in movable tents cranking out rustic stuff. Perhaps the tent/city distinction was more blurred than we are suggesting, and the real matrix of production was more complex than merely tent vs. city.

Rich
October 20th, 2012, 12:09 PM   74
James Blanchard
Members

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 23

Hi all,

The use of stars is something that I tend to associate with the Ersari weavings, among the Turkmen groups. We see them in what Konig would describe as "tribal", "quasi-tribal" and "Persianate" versions of the rugs. Below are three examples from my small collection of "Ersari / Beshir / MAD / Bukharan ... etc." rugs. We see stars commonly on Anatolian and tribal Persian rugs, but they seem uncommon on rugs from other Turkmen tribal groups. So, did these Ersari / Beshir stars come from local or Eastern design traditions, or from the West? One could probably do a whole thread just on the star motif in Central Asian rugs and textiles, I suppose.

James


"Beshir" with "Herati" design



"Quasi-tribal" Ersari?



"Tribal" Ersari Main

October 20th, 2012, 12:31 PM  75
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi Rich
I totally agree that we don't know enough, and I certainly don't think that the relation between urban and nomadic culture has been simple and mutual exclusive. This inner yard in the Alla-Ulli-Khan palace in Khiva is an interesting example of the urban culture's respect for nomadic aesthetics around 1850, the Khan establishing a micro steppe including a small tree and a yurt in the harem (it is of course a reconstruction, but as far as I understand it represents the original setup):



It is of course only guesswork but I would still think the Beshir rugs with their large formats and prayer rugs to be good candidates for representing or be descendants from an old local workshop tradition which could have accompanied the huge palaces and mosques of Khiva, Bukhara and Samarkand.

And James - stars sure are an all-round motif on the rugs, but I wonder if the stars with the small white dots at their points could be said to be an Ersari/Beshir speciality ?



best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; October 20th, 2012 at 12:47 PM.
October 22nd, 2012, 03:05 AM   76
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

Hi All

Apart from the apparent possible floral motif, the only other explanation of the red dots in the Yilan Beshir rugs I have seen is that the dots should be old symbols of fertility among the red snakes in water (Elena Tzareva). I haven't found any sources on this, do anyone here have an idea what could be the background of this interpretation ?

Golden cloud bans and dots as representing the exalted night sky on Muhammads ascent to heaven seems to have been very common in the 15th persian miniatures, here are some samples:



And on this one an angel seems to be bestowing Muhammad with flowers, giving us a few real reed dots among the golden ones (the red dot on top of Muhammad's turban I will leave out of this, even though it is tempting to see it as a strange version of the cintamani)



in this 16th c Safavid fragment we see angels among red cloud bands and flowers



Best Martin

Last edited by Martin Andersen; November 5th, 2012 at 02:02 AM.
October 31st, 2012, 02:53 AM 77
Martin Andersen
Members

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 68

The multicolored predominantly dark blue background of the Beshir Yilan rugs, stands out among the turkmen rugs with its non-geometrical and organic floating character.

Some of the other Middle Amu Darya rugs both large and small formats also tend towards articulating a similar background color.



Even though not much can be be definitely concluded in discussions like this, I personally do think that an interpretation of the peculiar background color of the Yilan rugs as representing the night sky is a fair place to land. Stating this is perhaps not much of a conclusion, but in a strange way it for me does change the perception when looking at the rugs. Gazing at the stars floating on the deep perspective of dark space is probably a basic and profound human experience - and with the Yiilan rugs I would say we are sharing it with the Turkmen (or Tadjik) weavers.



best Martin