September 10th, 2011, 03:12 PM 1
Steve Price
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How ancient is felt?

Hi Patrick

One of your conjectures in the essay is that felt "may predate the earliest flatweaves". A reader who prefers to remain anonymous sent me a note with reasons that this may not be the case. The main thrust of the argument is that there are plied and dyed hemp and flax fibers dated to about 30,000 years ago, and it seems reasonable to assume that they were used to weave fabrics of some kind. Felt requires lots of wool, and probably couldn't be made until the domestication of sheep gave the locals enough wool to make felt. The domestication of sheep is not believed to have happened until about 6,000 years ago.

Our reader recommends Stephanie Bunn's Nomadic Felts (British Museum).

Regards

Steve Price
September 10th, 2011, 06:18 PM  2
Patrick Weiler
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Flat Wrong

Steve,
I was flat-wrong in the salon essay.
What I neglected to say in the essay is:
felt "may predate the earliest WOOL flatweaves"
Of course your correspondent is correct. Fibers of material other than sheep wool had been woven long before wool was capable of being woven.
Before being suitable for weaving, one might conjecture that using the fleece as bedding could have produced a natural felt-type material.
This process could have become formalized without any weaving technology being needed.
As wool became useful for weaving, it may have then been used for that purpose. And the weaving was more likely flat than pile. Other animal hair is used for flatweave purposes, such as side cords and sometimes warp and weft material, but not as pile as far as I know - except for camel. It could have been used for flatweave purposes long before sheep wool was used.
This is all speculation, of course, because my You-Tube video of the first wool pile weaving is too grainy to be conclusive.

Patrick Weiler
September 10th, 2011, 07:20 PM   3
Chuck Wagner
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Hi,

There is an entire chapter devoted to felt in E. J. W. Barber's "Prehistoric Textiles: The development of cloth in the Neolithic and Bronze ages, with special reference to the Aegean", which was published in 1991. This predates the 12,000 year old Peruvian, and 34,000 year old Georgian, discoveries. Still, his text in in agreement with other publications, placing the oldest known felts at Catal Huyuk at roughly 6000 years old.

Regards
Chuck Wagner
October 1st, 2011, 06:30 PM   4
Michael_Wendorf
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Early fibers and weavings

Dear Readers,

A few details: Professor E. J. W. Barber is a woman, not a man. Her book Prehistoric Fabrics is a classic but quite a bit of new research has been conducted since 1991. The earliest "weavings" attributed to Catal Huyuk that I recall being discussed in her book are loosely woven almost gauze like weavings made from bast fibers. I am not aware of evidence that these fibers were grown or harvested in or around Catal Huyuk. Other plant fibers such as those from hemp as referenced by the learned but anonymous contributor were most likely of the same structure and very loosely woven but were not found at Catal Huyuk to my recollection. I do not recall Professor Barber's discussion of felts at Catal Huyuk, if any.

More to the point of this interesting thread, I am not aware of the reasons why sheep would have needed to be domesticated for their wool to be used in felt making. My understanding is that wool could not be used for weaving prior to domestication because of the nature of the fibers pre-domestication - not long enough and not pliable enough. But I don't necessarily believe this would preclude their use in felt making which is not a woven structure so far as I understand it. As such, Patrick Weiler's conjecture that fleece of wild sheep or other animals could have been used for bedding and evolved into a felt process in the distant past does not seem too far-fetched.

Finally, readers may be interested to go back to Christie's London April 2011 auction where a felt radio-carbon dated to 300 - 400 BC was auctioned. It is a rare opportunity to see a very early felt - there is a link form the Hali website news section if you cannot find it on the Christie's site.

With friendly greetings, Michael
October 2nd, 2011, 07:04 AM  5
Steve Price
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Hi Michael

I think the argument our anonymous contributor made about domestication of sheep being a necessary prerequisite to making felts is that felt requires very large amounts of wool and gathering that much from wild sheep seems unlikely to him/her.

Regards

Steve Price
October 2nd, 2011, 12:28 PM   6
Chuck Wagner
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Hi Steve,

Access to a significant number of wild sheep is not really an unlikely event - several prehistoric cultures had well developed hunting methodologies that included construction of rock walls or stick fences that served to funnel or direct a stampeding herd of wild animals up against, or over, a vertical rock wall - or into an enclosure made of the same materials.

So, to me it is more dependent on the presence of the sheep themselves. Successful cultures would have been aware of the migration habits of their hunting target(s), and would have migrated their camps accordingly. With the likely presence of a not-very-pleasant smelling heap of materials as a by-product, I can imagine that "natural felting" may have been observed very early in prehistory, and intentional felting followed rather soon afterward.

We just haven't found the evidence yet.

Regards
Chuck Wagner
October 2nd, 2011, 12:37 PM   7
Steve Price
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Hi Chuck

I know nearly nothing of the subject; my post that opened this thread was simply passing along an opinion sent to me by an anonymous person whose opinions I respect. I am in no position to defend or oppose the correctness (or incorrectness) of the opinion I passed on, though. I am interested in reading the conflicting points of view and their rationales (as in your post), of course.

Regards

Steve Price
October 2nd, 2011, 02:24 PM   8
Chuck Wagner
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Hi Steve

These structures are well known archaeologists working on the the Middle East deserts. Here's a link to a representative page, and a direct embed of an image showing the narrowing pathway where the animals were stampeded, leading into the rather sophisticated enclosure. Maybe you can capture it so if the link goes stale we still have the reference in the archive ? In the Middle East cases, the primary targets were presumed to be herds of gazelles, based on evidence found in drawings, etc. Our distant ancestors were sly buggers.

http://ixdi.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/desert-kites-ancient-strategic-design-genius/



Credits are in the article.

Regards
Chuck Wagner
October 3rd, 2011, 09:53 AM   9
Michael_Wendorf
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Lots of Wool

Thank Steve and Chuck,

I cannot say for sure how much wool would be needed - it seems to depend on the scale of production and size of felt. It is all relative. Pelts seem most basic for warmth and felts might have simulated pelts more than any early weavings. In any event, I am not aware of a reason or evidence to suggest early felting had to be exclusively or purely wool. There is a reason we think of them as primitive. Moreover, what is the comparison in terms of availability to - the availability of bast, flax or hemp fibers? Besides the significant issue of cultivation we might consider the challenge of harvesting and then manipulating "very large amounts" or even small amounts of fiber to create anything we might define as a weaving.

Interesting conjecture...

Thanks and best regards, Michael