Steve Price

Hi All

Yaser's essay reminded me of Peter Andrews' efforts to correct what was (and still is) almost universally referred to in Rugdom as the ok bash. For those who have escaped the taint of Turkomania, this is a weaving sewn into approximately the shape of an artillery shell and used to cover the ends of bundles of tent struts being carried on camels.

Andrews is an anthropologist who specialized is Turkmen culture, did extensive field work among the Turkmen, and is married to a Yomud woman. In my opinion, he has the credentials to be considered expert on Turkmen culture. For many years, he vainly attempted to get the world of rug collectors to modify their term to uuk bash. The problem, he explained, wasn't simply one of pronunciation, it was one of meaning.

Here's the story. The word bash means cover, container, or hat. The word ok means arrow. Hence, an ok bash would be a container for arrows; a quiver. The word uuk means tent strut. Hence, an uuk bash would be a container or cover for tent struts. That's exactly what the thing we refer to as an ok bash was.

It's not obvious how the misnaming came to be accepted. It may be as simple as the similarity in sounds being transliterated incorrectly, or it may be that the weaving was thought to be (or represented to be) a quiver. In any case, I think Andrews finally gave up on trying to convert Rugdom to the correct usage. I participated in that effort for awhile, but it became clear to me after a number of years that it was a waste of time and effort.

Regards

Steve Price

Patrick Weiler

Yaser,
You have eloquently stated the Elephant in the Living Room problem.
Your quest, however, may be as frustrating as that of Don Quixote.
Baluch, Beluch, Beludj, Baluchi, Beluchi, Baloch, Balutch, Beloch, Baloochi.
Need I say more?
And what about that crazy idea of identifying Turkmen (or is that Turkoman) pieces by "Portrait" or "Landscape" formats?
Whose idea was that, anyway?
The situation appears intractable. The only solution is to restrict your purchases to Bokara's. Or is that Bokkharra? Or Bokhara? Or Bukhara?

Patrick Weiler

Steve Price

Hi Patrick

Part of the problem of multiple spellings of the same word (Beluch, Baluch, etc.) is that the original language uses a different alphabet than ours, and transliteration rules for it may not have existed until the various forms became embedded (for all I know, they may not exist yet). Yet another issue is that it's common for geographic and political designations to be language-specific. Consider the following groups of synonyms in different languages:
London = Londres
Germany = Deutschland = Nemetz
Japan = Nihon
Russia = Rus = Russland
England = Angleterre = Eigo

The list goes on and on. Perhaps the fact that most ruggie terms are used by only a small subset of the population improves the prospects that at least some of them will become universal.

Regards

Steve Price

Marvin Amstey

Whether ok or uuk bash, I still contend that the opening of this "bag" is not wide enough to cover the ends of half the struts to the Yurt's roof. Perhaps "ok bash" is correct since it IS wide enough to be a quiver.

Steve Price

Hi Marvin

I'd tend to agree if it wasn't for the fact that Peter Andrews was in a position to know first hand what the thing was used for and what it was called by Turkmen, at least in the mid-20th century. No ok-bash I've seen would hold the ends of more than, perhaps, six to eight tent struts. On the other hand, each camel could carry two or more bundles of them.

Regards

Steve Price

Steve Price

Hi Again

I thought I remembered a discussion about the uuk bash (or ok bash) in the past, and located it. Here's a link to that discussion.

Regards

Steve Price

Marvin Amstey

Wow! We had that discussion 11 years ago!! Time flies, but I haven't changed my mind, and I still have not seen pictures of the "uuk bash" in action.

Steve Price

Hi Marvin

I had similar thoughts when I saw the date on that thread. Plus la change, plus la meme chose.

Regards,

Steve price

Andy Hale

Uzbeks, especially Lakai and Kungrat make embroidered bags called "ut bash". "Ut bash" can be translated as "tent pole cover" but the bags aren't used for that or anything else. They are purely decorative and just hang in the tents or house.

This is discussed in our book "Uzbek Embroidery" done for the Minneapolis Institute of Art in 2007. Often the names of objects (or designs) in Central Asia are referential and not meant to be taken literally. Think about the "glove compartment" in our cars. How many people keep gloves in them? I have to side with Marvin in this debate having owned a few yurts myself.

Steve Price

Hi Andy

Point well taken. I gave up trying to convert anyone to Peter Andrews' camp in the uk bash/ok bash battle, but continue to use his preferred term myself, and try to disagree with the others without being evangelical. My rationalization for being stubborn is that Peter has not only firsthand, but intimate knowledge of what a Yomud means by the word. I don't think he owns any yurts, but he has authored a book about them.

Regards, and congratulations on being this year's Caroline and McCoy Jones Memorial Lecturer. I'll post an announcement about it on our Announcements section a little later today.

Steve Price

Jeff Sun

I tend to believe along these lines as well.

It seems hard to believe that a time consuming, well decorated weaving like Ok-bash (uuk Bash) could be used for something as pedestrian as a tent pole cover. It doesn't pass the sniff test.

1. Unlike horse and camel trappings which decorate and show your pride in your fine animal, is anyone particularly proud of their tent poles? So proud that they are going to decorate them while in transit? I doubt it.

2. An unusual number of Ok-bash seem to be in extraordinarily good shape for such rough use. My guess is if that were really their use they would only be fragments.

3. If every nomad has a tent (and presumably tent poles) than Okbash would be super common...which apparently they are not.

So my tendency is to think that they are just another form of Iglasik...but a more elaborate one. A super nice one that maybe you make as a gift or a dowry. But in the end it is simply a tent bag for storing stuff. Spoons maybe. Or flowers. Or whatever. Or nothing. But probably not tent poles.

Steve Price

Hi Jeff

Jon Thompson and Peter Andrews both mention in conversations that Turkmen are practical folks, and their using something for more than one purpose isn't unusual. For this reason, I think it's likely that regardless of what the primary purpose was when it came off the loom, many an ok bash/uk bash also served as a container for long things like wooden spoons. I don't think anyone ever suggested that tent struts were stored in some way that included having covers on their tips, or that they were ever stored at all.

I am confused by your reference to tent-pole covers as "pedestrian" and your notion that the bag wasn't likely to be a tent strut cover because,
... is anyone particularly proud of their tent poles? So proud that they are going to decorate them while in transit? I doubt it.

The twice-yearly migrations weren't exactly pedestrian events (like going to the supermarket for a loaf of bread, for example). They involved relocating the families and homes of substantial numbers of people at the changing of the seasons. Festivals marking seasonal changes have been common in cultures throughout the world for millennia; the changes and the migrations timed by them were significant events.

More significant, in my opinion, is that (according to Andrews and Thompson, at least), covering the ends of the bundles of tent struts tied to the camels during the migrations had a practical aspect. The ok bash/uk bash had tassels attached, and the movement of the tassels was said to draw the attention of the next camel in line, which helped reduce having the animal walk into the end of a strut and get poked in the eye.

I never heard Thompson or Andrews (or anyone else, until now) suggest that using the bag to cover the ends of bundles of struts was a way of glorifying the struts any more than a chemche torba glorifies the spoons stored in it. Rather, the decorative aspect would have been to adorn the camel carrying the struts. This is sort of like the dyzlyk that covered the camel's knees in wedding processions. It wasn't the camel's knees that were a source of pride, it was the camel. Jon Thompson facetiously remarks on occasion that dyzlyks catered to the modesty of the animals.

Regards

Steve Price

Jeff Sun

Steve-

I am still rather unconvinced these were used for tent poles, for among other reasons, the remaining ones I named:

2. An unusual number of Ok-bash seem to be in extraordinarily good shape for such rough use. My guess is if that were really their use they would only be fragments.

3. If every nomad has a tent (and presumably tent poles) than Okbash would be super common...which apparently they are not.

I would be further interested if anyone has any used ok-bashi. What are the wear patterns like? Are they worn on the pile side or the back?

Steve Price

Hi Jeff

I don't agree that they would necessarily be super common if they were tent strut covers. The migration only happened twice a tear, so a nomadic family might not have needed more than one or two pairs of them over a period of many decades. Anyway, Yomud ok bash/uk bash aren't terriby rare, although they're less common than torbas or juvals. On the other hand, their shape when opened is kind of awkward for use in a western household, so they are less likely to have been preserved by westerners than rectangular bags or trappings.

The most worn examples I've seen have had the pointed end cut off, leaving a rectangle. Those are fragments, obviously. I've no idea whether the ends were removed because they were badly worn, or because of the irregular shape they generate when left in place.

Jon Thompson and Peter Andrews are both anthropologists whose area of specialization is the peoples of central Asia. Both say that these were tent strut covers, and Jon says he has photos of them in use. I have no firsthand knowledge of Turkmen culture myself, and tend to be as skeptical of most things as the next fellow. But I can't think of a single reason why Peter or Jon would lie about something like this. Can you (or anyone) suggest a motive?

Regards

Steve Price

Jeff Sun

Not implying that anyone would lie. However, even experts are known to be wrong, and I have heard some claims made about rugs with scant sense of practicality.

For example, there is a type of Tibetan rug which appears to be a large saddle rug. You can see an examples of these on pages 174-185 of Thomas Coles' book Dream Weavers. They are described as horse covers. But having seen many of these in person, they are simply way, way too small to be a horse cover in what would be familiar to most western equestrians. Nor are they split in the middle with outward/downward facing pile that would be used on a saddle rug, so as not to irritate the rider's legs with upward facing pile. Nor do any examples seem to have the cut outs that saddle rugs often have for saddle straps.

So what are they?

Many dealers in China have told me they are Yak covers. I make no claim that this is in fact the case, but as Yaks are mainly cargo carriers and only sometimes ridden, it makes sense to me that these could be used to cushion the beast's back.

I can believe it...but I will believe it 100% when I see a yak with one on it's back.

This is a massive digression, I realize. My point is that we should not be afraid to question, even the experts.

Steve Price

Hi Jeff

I don't think experts are immune from being questioned, either. I've questioned lots of claims about rugs and weaving cultures; for example, I've published reasons why the widely held belief that a germetsch was used to keep chickens and small animals out of the yurt (paraphrasing Thompson, if my memory is correct) is implausible and why "stray reds" sometimes aren't symptoms of lousy synthetic dyes, sometimes aren't dyes that have run at all.

Thompson and Andrews aren't rug dealers, they're academics whose specialty is central Asian material culture. That doesn't mean that they can't be mistaken, but both have done field work among Turkmen and Andrews is married to one, giving them a level of credibility on the subject that trumps everyone else that I'm aware of. And Jon Thompson either does or does not have photos of ok bash/uk bash in use covering the ends of camel borne tent struts. He says he does. That leaves us in the position of believing that he's telling the truth, lied about it, or is delusional. He might be misinformed about the use of the weaving, but not about whether he has those photos.

One of the pleasures of collecting artifacts from foreign cultures is wondering what purpose (if any) they served, not so?

Regards

Steve Price

Patrick Weiler

I recall recently seeing a photo, which I think was in the Tapper/Thompson book on Iranian nomads, showing a camel with tent poles with the back ends covered with ok-bash. It was taken around 1961 I think.
Patrick Weiler

Wayne Anderson

I have no first hand knowledge about the use of ok/uuk bash but have seen some with wear from use. Parsons in The Carpets of Afghanistan says that ok bash are rectangular before folding together into their finished shape, the pointed end being made by folding one edge inward several times before fastening. I have seen pile pieces with flatweave between the pile triangles at the bottom. The infolded material within the point could act as a padding for the ends of the tent poles and strengthen the join.This infolded material might become worn by the moving ends of the traveling tent poles and then be removed when the uuk bash is opened, giving the usual shape of opened uuk bash found in the marketplace.







Figure 1 is a flatwoven uuk bash showing surface wear and loss of side cords and tassels, consistent I believe with considerable use. Figure 2 shows the inside with the infolded material padding the point. Figure 3 is an opened newer uuk bash. Although difficult to see in the image the creases of the infolding are readily apparent when in the hand.
Wayne Anderson

Marvin Amstey

Wayne,
I agree that these were used; but for what? A venerable and very well-known rug dealer told me 35 years ago that he thought these conically shaped items were water bottle (goat skin) covers. OTOH, I've never seen a picture of their use for that or tent poles or anything else.

Wayne Anderson

Marvin
I have never seen in person or in a photo an uuk bash being used. Jeff had suggested that because they are uncommon and unworn that could not have been used as yurt pole covers. Steve replied that perhaps they were not so uncommon and I attempted to show that they are sometimes worn and that the construction of the point would provide padding and strength if they were used as covers in transport. I have seen a photo(which I will try to find) of a yurt loaded on a camel without uuk bash, for what that is worth. I would have thought it unlikely they were used as covers for goat skin water bottles based on their size, but then I found this photo in The Turkmans of Iran by Kasraian and Arshi of a yomud tent with decorated goat(?) skins with designs somewhat similar to the chevron designs on yomud uuk bash. But I still tend to believe Andrews and Thompson.



Wayne

Jeff Sun

Parsons on page 42 of The Carpets of Afghanistan has a picture of two ok-bash (color plate 12). Here he says they are always made in pairs and form part of the dowry.

On the previous page, page 41, he notes them as tent pole holders and decries that their use is often mis-credited as water skin holders, nosebags, etc, etc.

He then says they are used in the yurt for storing jewelry (heavy Turkmen stuff, for sure).

Seems to be two really divergent uses to me, and I am not sure I buy it. Kinda like using your microwave as a gun safe.

Note that he calls them Kola-i-Chergh through-out.

Steve Price

Hi Jeff

The nomenclature issue in this case (Kola-i-Chergh; uk bash/ok bash)is probably just a matter of language. Parsons, if I'm not mistaken, spent some time with the tribal folk of Afghanistan. His saying that they are tent strut covers (I'm assuming that he means covers, not holders; I can't imagine what a tent strut holder would do) that are also used for storing jewelry in the yurt is consistent with Peter Andrews and Jon Thompson, both of whom say they're tent strut covers and add that multiple uses is the norm for Turkmen utilitarian items.

The nomenclature of Turkmen bags has been a source of confusion for years. I've never seen an explanation of how to distinguish a chemche torba (spoon bag) from an igsalik (spindle bag), although a page in Azadi's Wie Blumen in der Wuste has two bags, one with each name. If my memory is working this evening, Tzareva's book has one labeled ayna khalta (mirror bag), and others are labeled at torba (horse feed bag) in some places. There are variant spellings of several of these terms as well, and the number of names (including spelling variants) probably approaches the number of published examples.

In Rodgers and Hammerstein's, The King and I, King Chulalungkorn has a neat song about how puzzling things become as we get more educated.

Regards

Steve Price

Jeff Sun

Then riddle me this, Parsons, Thompson, Andrews: If the Ok-bash is used to store jewelry when sedentary and to wrap pole ends when on the move...then where is the jewelry stored when on the move? This could lead to some interesting conversations.

Turkman Wife: "Hey!!...where's the ok-bash?"

Turkman Husband: " I wrapped the pole ends with it. It fits perfectly and the tassels distract the camel! And...."

Turkman Wife: "MY JEWELRY WAS IN THAT!!!!!"

Turkman Husband: "Oh....yeah....a bout that....."

Turkman Wife: "Where did you put the jewelry???"

Turkman Husband: "In the Torba with the Chemle guls."

Turkman Wife: "The one with your stinky dirty underwear?? Great! Just great!!!"

Turkman Husband: "Sorry...??"

Turkman Wife: "You better be. Next time use the ZIPLOC torba!"

Steve Price

Hi Jeff

Turkmen Husband: We'll just leave the yurt here. There's bound to be yurts for sale at the winter grounds, and with the recession in Turkmenistan, we can get one there and put an end to the nuisance of packing up everything when we move every six months.

Turkmen Wife: That will show my father that you marrying you wasn't such a bad decision, after all. We'll be the first two-yurt couple in the family. I'm SUCH a lucky woman! I can't wait to go shopping for more jewelry to keep at the winter grounds. Can we start migrating a little early so we get first choice at choosing from the foreclosed yurts for sale?

Regards

Jeff Sun

I sense "The Turkmens" could become a regular feature and on-going sitcom of Turkotek.

Of course "The Ok-Bash Incident" would be a good name for the first episode.