Puzzling Bagfaces

Recently I purchased at a reasonable cost four bag faces. They were labeled "kashkuli" or kashgai, from Iran.


Bag 1



Bag 2



Bag3



Bag4


Obviously, Bag 3 is a classical Bakhtiari double saddle bag. The three others also look like Bakhtiari "tachehs".

Bags 1, 2 and 3 are obviously new. The Bakhtiari saddle bag has cotton warps, one of the two others is all wool with what looks like camel hair for warps, and the third has also cotton warps and the white motifs also made of cotton (hand spun).

Bag 4 looks more old (signs of wear, stains). It has cotton warps and the white field is also hand spun cotton weft faced. The design of this one is very attractive and seems original. In the red ground lateral parts some bands have brocaded zig zag motifs.

The questions are :
- is the Kashkuli attribution a likely one or those items are really Bakhtiar or Chahar Mahal (see Tanavoli's book) and mislabeled by the dealer?
- in the case of a real Kashkuli making is this genuine (this fact is not documented) or is it a copy of Bakhtiar bags for the market ?

thanks at all turkotekers for their lights

Louis Dubreuil

out of ideas ?

I am astonished to have not any answer about he bags. Many viewers but no comments. Maybe pictures are'nt enought explicit.
Is there not any "tachehs" connoisseurs ? I'll send to steve more detailed pictures.

Meilleures salutations à tous

Louis Dubreuil

In order to increase the attraction of the bags here are some detailed pictures of bag 2, bag 3 and bag 4.

The more I see bag 4, the more I like it. Two hypothesis about this latter: first it is a "good" one, rescued from the far country, second it is a "fake" with hard ageing technics. In this case I find the weaver very skillful. But there is not "fraud" as it was sold for "new", not "late XIX°".

Louis Dubreuil

Puzzles

Louis,

For the tacheh challenged among us, how were these bags folded for use? With a typical saddlebag, such as bag 3, the top 1/4 was folded down and the bottom 1/4 was folded up. This made two enclosures, with enough area in the middle for closure loops. Are there any vestigal closure loops on these tacheh? Were they folded in the middle?
Due to the relatively recent book by Tanavoli about tacheh, I would not expect any "fakes" to be made. These weavings were probably made for their usual usage up until now, so there will be older and newer versions still extant.

Patrick Weiler

Folding

Hi Patrick

The tacheh four is, as Tanavoli write, a double tacheh. The red vertical line in the middle is the line separating the two pouches. For each pouch the folding line is on the vertical axis of the piled part of the bag. The ends are sewed folowing the red vertical axis. The two lateral borders are not identical. The upper is reinforced by a special seam, as it is indicated in the Tanavoli's description.
The two other bags do not have this feature : the two lateral seams are identical. This is why, in my opinion, with the fact they are new and due to their looser weaving, we can consider those two bags being made just for the market and not for use.
The question remains of their origin : Kashkuli or Chahar Mahal ?

Meilleures salutations

louis Dubreuil

Bonjour Louis,

quote:

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Two hypothesis about this latter: first it is a "good" one, rescued from the far country, second it is a "fake" with hard ageing technics. In this case I find the weaver very skillful. But there is not "fraud" as it was sold for "new", not "late XIX°".

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