Mystery Textile Number 7

Hi People

Here is Richard's seventh mystery textile:

Dear folks -

I think this will look like an item of ikat to a number of us. Likely Central Asian, most likely Uzbek. I own a fragment with a similar striping.

Harold Keshishian, though, owns a similar piece he bought from a lady missionary who said that she obtained it in the field in Turkey.

I wonder if Richard hasn't rotated this one 90 degrees in an effort to confuse us.

Regards,

R. John Howe

Hi,

Batik? Indonesian?

Could be tie and dye, but the white dots are random. So, I'll wait for the blow up.

Vincent

Vincent -

As a professional repair person you're closer to such things than I, but if this is ikat and it is rotated 90 degrees from the position at which the warps would be vertical, then I don't think the patterning of the white is quite random.

Ikat is warp-faced. The warps are bound and dyed repeatedly. The white areas were bound through all of the various dyings and so have no color, unless white dyeing also occurs.

Now assume that the warps are all dyed and the white areas we see are staggered here in seemingly random way were likely not so when the wrappings were taken off. They were a band of white.

But one move which ikat weavers often make is to stagger the warp theads as they are placed on the loom so that the warp sections that are white are not at the same level. Only then are the wefts woven in. Notice that the patterning of white seems to repeat at different places on this piece and it seems to occur in about the same way each time. Deliberate systematic actions to produce random seeming effects.

Kate Fitz Gibbon and Andy Hale say in their wonderful book "Ikat," (if you don't have it you must get it, the paperback version is not expensive, perhaps one of the two best textile books in the past 10 years in my opinion) that it took the cooperation of as many as 13 guilds, frequently of different ethnic groups, to make Central Asian ikat. Not much was left to chance in such a system.

Regards,

R. John Howe

Richard sent a new image:

Hi John,

Thanks for explaining.
Now it looks like Ikat. Think you're right.
The silk lining of a Turkman coat?
I have the velvet purple coat. (Remember me rapping a tune in it)
The colours make a perfect match.

PS.
It seems two treads of textile don't do the trick.
With music it's easy.

Fwaaaa,afwa,fwa, fwafwafwa. Taphraa!

Maybe Richard knows this one?

Best regards,
Vincent

dear john and vincent,



no


sorry


try again



best

r



actually vincent has made an almost complete guess . . . the silk lining of a turkman coat [without seeing it i will just arbitrarily add .. circa 1900 . . .] he didnt say the tribe but lets assume that he added that or that the more general turkman is enough . . .


dramatic music


clock ticking


answer


NO > > > that isnt it suggest you try again after the next clue which will appear mid week.

in the meantime
suggest you have a look at the cryptic clues.

New image:

i remenber? i saw something like that in Syria few years ago...

i think it's an silk textile size 1,8m * 0.8m use in hamam for protection. it's an ikat technique... of course. main colors red, white and black.

excuses for my bad english

Dear Dominique,
Welcome to our forum.
Would you mind to register again - or at least to sign - with your full name?
Merci.


Filiberto

Chère Dominique,

Ca te dérangerait de t’enregistrer de nouveau – ou au moins de signer – avec ton nom et prénom ?

Merci,

Filiberto
(hey, I can write in French too!)

cher d.

your solution then would be


syrian ikat [used in the turkish bath [hamam]

period ????



i am happy to announce

******trumpet, drums. and timpani fanfare*******


that to the best of my knowledge your solution for the mystery iem is


******dramatic pause******



incorrect




i will give a further clue . . . .

yes it is an ikat

Hi Richard,

How about ikat over loom-woven striping ? I've seen a couple pieces like this that seemed to me to be machine-woven cloth that was ikat-dyed. They were from Turkmenistan (or so I was told) , and about the size of something you'd use for a tablecloth or bedcover. As for age, who knows, but I'll guess early to mid 20th century.

Chuck Wagner

__________________
Chuck Wagner

dear mr wagner,


i am happy to announce

******trumpet, drums. and timpani fanfare*******


that to the best of my knowledge your solution for the mystery iem is


******dramatic pause******



incorrect


regards


richard farber


and a CLUE . . . . i am not saying that it is entirely incorrect

Contemporary Indian sari from Orissa in a single-ikat technique????

__________________
Stephen Louw

dear mr louw

i am most unhappy to announce

******trumpet, drums. and timpani fanfare*******


that to the best of my knowledge your solution for the mystery iem is


******dramatic pause******



incorrect


regards


richard farber


and a CLUE . . . . i am not saying that it is entirely incorrect but two out of the three are not there [date and location]. . . . as for it being an item of clothing it was not used so to the best of my knowledge where it was made.

sorry . . . i know that the texiles that i choose are difficult but if i think that that is part of the challenge.

The sail from the HMS Bounty, ca. 1787, marooned off Pitcairn Island.

Dont say sorry for the difficult exercise, I am having great fun.

1787 is incorrect . . . .

the ikat is probobly from the 5th quartet of the 19th :>}
that is early 20th cent. althought these pieces were made before that of course and the ones from the end of the 19th cent and those from the 20th have the same colors and design [this is not my field and experts in this will be tearing their hair and saying how can it be that i miss the detailed differences --- i haven't seen enough of these pieces is the answer]

and from the lack of results out there it doesnt look like many of you there have seen any.



another CLUE . . . there is a velvet ikat made is the same town !!!!!



best


richard farber


dear turkotekees - - - - when should i give the answer ?

do you want more time ?

THE SOLUTION

dear all


the piece is an ikat from PERSIA the town of yazd
[think about zoroaster textiles]

5 th quarter for the 19th cent. seriously it is difficult for me to tell the age of the piece it could be 19th cent. but might well have been made through the first half of the twentieth cent.


the salon will be open for another couple of days for your comments or corrections if i have made a mistake


thanks

sincerely


richard farber