Mystery Textile Number 6

Hi People

Here is Richard's sixth mystery textile:

Hi

A stylized carnation embroidered on a Turkish handkerchief? Or is it a table-cloth?

Regards,

Horst

Richard sent a new image:

Hi

This stylised carnation - if it is - has occurred on old Anatolian rugs and kelims. I would not be surprised if this ancient motif is widespread all over western and central Asia. The technique appears to be mixed, embroidery as well as wood block printing on cotton. Function? Without scale anything sizewise from handkerchief (perhaps least likely) over headscarf to sofreh (tablecloth) and bedspread.

Regards,

Horst

New clue from Richard:


I like this one very much.

Hi again,

(My good name is on the pavement by now....Oh it already was.......ok.)

No block print. Only if they made a new block for every print
So it must wax and dye and stitch work in silk.

The style has a Far Eastern feeling.

That's all my eyes can tell me.
I can't smell it. I can't touch it grrrrr.
This is some game.

But I like it anyway.

Best regards,
Vincent

dear all

this is a rare textile design but CLUE other textiles with dissimilar design from the same area are much more common.

best


richard

Suzani

Richard,
How about Uzbek Suzani, 19 century and, knowing your interest, a niche design?
Igo

thanks to horst nitz for his brave guesses on the basis of the first very difficult cllues.

dear igo licht,

you answer is in a way partly correct . . . BUT

for suzani i think we can ask for a town or school of embroidery
and a more exact date -- which quarter would be fine or which of two quarters if that is your opinion. PLEASE NOT FIRST OR THIRD --- OR SECOND OR FOURTH :>}


and sorry to disappoint you it is not a djoi-namaz [prayer or niche form embroidery] but something else-- and that might be your problem to guess although examples have been published THAT WAS A CLUE.

good luck

richard farber

Greetings to All

I am slightly puzzled that I can’t make out the structure of the ground weave. Should it really be that it is that fine or does one has to start thinking about something completely different – a very fine felt for instance?

Regards

Horst

dear horst nitz,

the cloth is a fine cotton weave . . .somewhat finer than what usually sees in a karbos, the hand woven cotton of most suzanis but a karbos nonetheless.

let me repeat what i wrote a message or two before . . .


the piece is a suzani . . . you now have to determine

the city or area it is from

its type [ it is not a djoi namaz ]

and its age



good hunting


regards


richard farber

a new clue will be posted in a day or two.

Suzani?

Richard,
I looked on many Suzanis on the web and in books, and yours is the closest to Bokhara Suzani. Mid 19th century.
Now the use: most of the suzanis are wall hangings. But it could also be bedding cover or craddle.
Regards,
Igo

dear mr igo licht

well done !


yes i agree that the item is a susani

i agree that it is early . . . perhaps mid 19th as you say

BUT


it is definately NOT from the bukhara area . . . .

i am sending a new CLUE to the moderators to post


best of luck


richard farber


a little verbal clue . . . vincent send something that could give you a direction

Thank you Filiberto for the high resolution image.

Regards,

Horst

Hi,

Speeding things up a bit as you can see.

Mughal style.
!9'th century.
A wall hanging.
Is it all wool? It looks like it.

Best regards,
Vincent

dear all

yes there is a mughal ingfluence.


the three is silk except for the crimson red used in three flowers which is wool and worn in two places

this wool was imported from india up to the third quarter of the 19th and is a good indicator of age of suzanis . . . .


but i will repeat a CLUE AND ENLARGE ON IT

THIS IS A TYPE OF SUZANI FROM AN AREA WHERE MOST OF THE SUZANI COME FROM DIFFERENT CULTURE THAT THE MOGHUL INFLUENCED FLORAL DESIGNS . . . IT IS A RATHER RARE TYPE FROM THIS AREA


sincerely


richard farber

Well done Vincent.

For a moment I also considered Moghul influence. But then I thought that was far catched and lost confidence in the idea.

Regards,

Horst

2 new visual clues

dear all

A new image of the textile



and a CLUE to the CLUE



THE CLUEs BRING A NEW ANGLE ONTO HOW YOU MIGHT IMAGINE THE TEXTILE LOOKS

good luck


richard farber


another clue


TWO RUSSIAN LADIES HAVE SHOWN IMAGES OF THIS TYPE IN THEIR BOOK OF ARTICLES.

Nurata

Richard,
Your additional clues (diagonal oriantation of flowers, Mughal influence) apperantly point to Nurata valley, although I could not find the same flower design in other suzanis.
Regards,
Igo

Hi,

Uzbek. Lakai?

Not a prayer design.
Wall hanging is to easy.
So maybe: A cradle cover for happy Lakai babies.

Best regards,
Vincent

Richard,
I translate your silence that it is not Bokhara, Nurata or Lakai suzani. Not many possibilities left - lets try Tashkent now.
Regards,
Igo

dear igo licht,

your last guess would be

susani cradle cover

tashkent


date ???


you are almost there . . . but CLUE the piece does not swing.


good luck


richard farber


out of town

will post complete image tomorrow

Greetings to All

„Moghul“ is derived from „Mongol“ and the cradle of that dynasty stood in the Ferghana Valley. During the 300 years of Mughal reign a specific style of decorative art was developed and exported. This suzani is less abstract, stylised and symmetric than most (from Western or Central Turkestan). I would describe it as quite naturalistic in some aspects. This calls Persia to my mind, where there are settlements with a substantial Mongol minority. But they got stranded there long before the Mughals. More likely therefore seems to be an East Turkestan origin from some of the oases fringing the Takla Makan desert. Whilst the Moghul reign lasted, a lively exchange of goods can be assumed to have taken place along the ancient Karakorum route until the middle of 19th century – approximately the time when this suzani was made.

Comparing East Turkestan rugs with some further west, the relative liberty in the floral designs is quite obvious – to my eyes at least.

Regards,

Horst

Dear all,

Richard sent the complete image.



Whatever it is, I like it.

Regards,

Filiberto

Djoinamaz

Richard,
Great piece, I like it
It is quite similar in format and some design elements (but not in spaciness and flower design) to the Tashkent djoinamaz/namazlyk presented in the World of Carpets and Textiles book (Washington ICOC), article of of Lutfiya Mirsadiyeva - Maverannahr Suzanis, figure 29.
So this probably what it is.
Regards,
Igo

dear all


to the best of my knowledge the great majority of tashkent area suzanis represent the night sky. there are from a shamanistic moon worshiping cutlure.

a very few of them represent gardens - - like you might see in antique persian garden carpets.

the piece here -- your "name that textile" puzzle is one of these less common tashkent area garden pieces.







these two illustratons are from the german translation of

tschepelewezkaja and sucharewa susani usbekistnas schletzer verlag hamburg

the one piece is in the ethnographical museum of leningrad and the second in the usbekistan fine arts museum.


i often think that the dating of susanis is somewhat exagerated but this is most probobly a 19th century piece -- middle or third quarter.


so the answer is


tashkent area susani representing a garden

silk and wool [the wool is the bit of red that is to be seen on of some of the flowers imported from india in the 19th cent.] on hand woven cotton

19th cent. mid or third quarter.



congradulations to misters licht, nitz and keer


the right to proudly wear turkotek tee shirts - if there are ever made - surely belongs to them !!!!!

Igo sent this image of a Suzani Tashkent:



Thanks Igo

dear all

here are two images



>




typical east transoxanian niche from suzani . . .

and thank to mr licht for posting his image. where is it from ?


>


the one is not from the tashkent area . . . . possibly ora tube [there are many spellings for this town.


and thank to mr licht for posting his image. where was it published ?



sincerely

richard farber

Tashkent Suzani

Richard,
The image that Filiberto posted in a separate post (and not one of the images included in your post) is Tashkent djoinamaz/namazlyk presented in the World of Carpets and Textiles book (Washington ICOC), article of of Lutfiya Mirsadiyeva - Maverannahr Suzanis, figure 29.
Regards,
Igo