ID help needed

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

I copied this from Google from the British Museum but the link will not open. I have seen similar examples of an Ak Chuval with a red face but never just plain white. The few online examples I found reference this style to be Yomut/Yamud bag from 1900-1920.

I have another pic from one for sale in Turkey so I won’t post it and it has the long traditional torba style fringes at the bottom on the front of the bag.

[Frank Petruziello Member Find all posts View Profile Close Frank Petruziello]

Does this help?

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Joe,

I don't know what "I have seen similar examples of an Ak Chuval with a red face but never just plain white." means. Ak-juvals always have horizontal white bands - "ak" means white.

Here's one that I own; the image was on Turkotek about 25 years ago.


Steve Price

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

I just purchased this similar "Tekke Choval" at a Swedish auction:

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Thanks for the input. Using my phone at times limits my vocabulary so sorry for the lack of a sensible description. Further research revealed that the piece I posted is much smaller than a standard Chuval. In fact, I have seen it referenced as a “Ak Mafrash” which I have to admit is new to me.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Joe

The "ak" prefix just means white. There are ak khorjin, ak mafrash, ak torba and ak juvals, mostly woven by Tekke. There's also a group with rows of pile eparated by red plainweave instead owhite plainweave. Those are given the prefix, kizyl, which translates as reddish.

Hi Erik

That's a nice specimen. The white rows with pile in them is unusual. One of the things that strikes me about ak juvals is the extent to which their arrangement is similar. Yours appears to be from a different group than those I've seen.

Steve Price

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Steve! My "Tekke Choval" actually seems quite similar to the "Salor ak chuval" in Siawosch Azadi's Turkoman Carpets that we discussed some time ago:

http://www.turkotek.com/VB56/forum/m...ak-chuval-elem

Perhaps it is a Salor and not a Tekke? I will try to find out, using your advice in the above thread, as soon as the chuval arrives with the mail, which hopefully will happen next week.

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Here is one I picked up recently. After a few small repairs and a good cleaning, It came out nice in my opinion. All references I have found on this points it to the 1900-1920 range which for translates into being from the 1st half of the 20th C. Thus far all references call it a Yomut/Yomud piece. It’s 33x17 inches or for our friends that use the real measurement system, it’s 84x43 cm’s. I couldn’t find an example in my extensive book collection which is odd.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Joe

The palette points to Yomud but the multicolor fringe and the network with it point to Ersari. I've never seen a Yomud or Ersari ak-juval in person or in print.

Steve Price

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Steve! My "Tekke Choval" actually seems quite similar to the "Salor ak chuval" in Siawosch Azadi's Turkoman Carpets that we discussed some time ago:

http://www.turkotek.com/VB56/forum/m...ak-chuval-elem

Perhaps it is a Salor and not a Tekke? I will try to find out, using your advice in the above thread, as soon as the chuval arrives with the mail, which hopefully will happen next week.

Having made the test according to Steve's advice, I am inclined to believe that my piece is indeed a Salor rather than a Tekke.

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Erik,
There is an identical one in the Metropolitan museum. The dating says 1st half of the 19 century which could indicate a true Salor timeline prior to their demise. The museum does not say which tribe its from. Many I have seen list this type of example as a Tekke piece. With limited knowledge of this piece, I’d say Tekke is an obvious choice to label it for some. You will need an expert opinion to say which tribe it’s from. Good luck with it and enjoy.

I edited the museum location since it was incorrect on my first post.

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Joe, for these interesting points! The theory that these pieces are Salor comes from Azadi's attribution (see the discussion I linked to). I recently read somewhere that the more or less total disappearance of the Salor weavings in the 19th century due to military misfortunes is highly moot and may be one of the "truths by repetition" not uncommon in rug literature.

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Joe, for these interesting points! The theory that these pieces are Salor comes from Azadi's attribution (see the discussion I linked to). I recently read somewhere that the more or less total disappearance of the Salor weavings in the 19th century due to military misfortunes is highly moot and may be one of the "truths by repetition" not uncommon in rug literature.

Source for what I said about the demise of the Salor tribe: http://www.turkotek.com/VB37/archive...-3931-p-2.html (the postings by Andy Hale and Pierre Galafassi near the end of the thread)

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Erik

Pierre and Andy are both excellent sources of such information. Neither is among the marketplace mythologists.

Steve Price