A funny bagface

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

I recently bought the small bagface below on an Ebay auction, where it was advertised as "Antique Qashqai small Bagface ... Size: 43 x 39 cm. Will have natural as well as synth. dyes." Somewhat strangely its rug type and regional design was stated as "Kurdish".

Is its origin Qashgai or Kurdish or something else? What is its approximate age? And what about the rather strange-looking motif?

[Joel Greifinger Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Joel Greifinger]

Hi Erik,

The style of the closure tabs, the weft-substitution rosettes above and below them and the apparently cotton warps all suggest that it is Afshar, probably from the mid-twentieth century.

Joel Greifinger

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Joel, for helping me out on this! Any ideas about the motif?

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Thank you, Joel, for helping me out on this! Any ideas about the motif?

Hi Erik

I agree with Joel (that it's most likely Afshar, mid-20th century). If the motif had any meaning in the distant past, a weaver in 1950 was unlikely to know or care what it is.

Steve Price

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Steve, for confirming Joel's opinion! The motif is mysterious: To me it appears as it could be a highly stylized bowl of flowers, but I guess there is some more sophisticated explanation.

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Erik

It's very unlikely to be anything more mysterious than the pattern on the shirt I'm wearing.

Steve Price

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Your shirt must be quite colourful, Steve!

[Joe Lawrence Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Joe Lawrence]

Hi Erik

I agree with Joel (that it's most likely Afshar, mid-20th century). If the motif had any meaning in the distant past, a weaver in 1950 was unlikely to know or care what it is.

Steve Price

Steve, I respectfully disagree with you one this one. 1950 in this area of the world may as well have been 1850. Not a lot had changed in this time period. Significant change didn’t really start until the ‘70’s in villages….assuming it was made in a village. Village life in 1950 would have little to no electricity, running water or plumbing for example. More importantly, there would have been elders around that would have known the knowledge and meaning of the old ways passed on from their elders.

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi

I am also inclined to agree with Joel. The rosettes in the closure strip could also indicate a Veramin origin. The motif is a very simplified version of a common Afshar motif. But looking at the back, the color palette is very far from any Afshar work I've seen. The pale pinks, greens, and blues look more like they're from Turkey or Pakistan, and all are very faded on the front. I agree this looks like mid-20th century work.

Regards
Chuck

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Thank you, Chuck, for your expert comments! I have browsed through my books on tribal rugs and bags and googled a little at that, but I am unable to find anything very similar to this one. Peter Stone in his definitive guide to the design of tribal and village rugs mentions various Afshar vase motifs, but I cannot see any similarity between his illustrations and what I see in this rug. You do not happen to have at hand a picture of a rug with the motif you think this one is a simplified version of? If the colours seem more like those used in Turkey and Pakistan, what would that mean? Is the bagface after all not Iranian Afshar or Veramin?

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Erik,

Here's one (this is on the market so no comments beyond the motif itself) :


Regards
Chuck

[Erik Persson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Erik Persson]

Yes, now I see what you mean - the strange "funniness" of the bagface is the result of the over-simplification of the vase (Zil-i-Sultan) motif! What I have is, as it were, a silly Sultan...