Identification help please – Joval #2

[Phil Smythe Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil Smythe]

Hi folks,

Seeing as there has been no further input for the last ten days on the first bag face I put up (Identification please – TurkoTek) I will go ahead and post a second one that I would like help with id’ing and dating please. Adhering to Steve Price’s advice in the previous thread I will add no ancillary info except the knot count is 112 per square inch and the size is 120cm x 75cm and that these are the only two photos I have, that is I have no better quality ones.

Thanks for any help.

[Chuck Wagner Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck Wagner]

Hi Phil,

That is a Yomud chuval; as I recall this group (with the interesting minor gul) is attributed to the Atabai subgroup. I think I saw that in one of Elena's books.

We have a similar one:


I think they're both mid 19th century.

From a conversation with Jim Allen years ago, my recollection is that it was his sense that the more reddish ones are from further east in Yomud territory, and those with a more brown tone (like ours) from the more western oases.

There's one published in Uwe Jourdan's book on Turkoman weavings that is more similar to yours in palette and layout, also attributed as mid 19th century.

Regards
Chuck

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

Hi Chuck

That's not a definitive source. 'Nuff said.

Steve Price

[Phil Smythe Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil Smythe]

Thanks for the input Chuck.

Steve, do you mean the Jourdan book is not a definitive source, or just the rug Chuck posted is not definitive?

As I don't have the Jourdan book I would be interested to know.

Thanks, Phil

[Steve Price Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Steve Price]

The Jourdan book is as good as any, I was referring to the dealer Chuck cited. I'd rather not elaborate.

Steve Price

[Phil Smythe Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phil Smythe]

Thanks Steve. Understood.