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Virtual Show and Tell Just what the title says it is.

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Old September 12th, 2018, 12:33 PM   #1
Wendy Dunleavy
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Default Help please to identify

Hello. I need help to identify this lovely rug please.

I first need help to get the picture in the thread. How do I create my picture as a URL?

Thanks in advance
Wendy







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Old September 12th, 2018, 12:37 PM   #2
Steve Price
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Hi Wendy

Please send the image files to me (sprice@vcu.edu) as email attachments. I'll edit them as needed, put them in our server to give them internet addresses, and send you instructions on how to make them display in a message.

Regards, and welcome.

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Old September 13th, 2018, 09:39 PM   #3
Steve Price
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Hi All

Images are now in Wendy's post.

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Old September 14th, 2018, 01:22 PM   #4
Rich Larkin
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Hi Wendy,

Your rug is from the southern part of Iran, in Fars province or farther to the east in Kerman province. The design layout (three diamond shapes on a vertical axis) with random decoration strewn around the field (birds, blossoms, etc) is associated with tribal weavers in the Fars area (e. g., Qashqa'i, Khamseh, et al). These groups traditionally were associated with a nomadic way of life, although I am inclined to assign your rug to a village location where a type of rug reflecting the design tradition has become the staple product. If it is from a source closer to the Kerman area, the tribal influence would be the Afshar people (or related groups) who can be found in eastern Fars and into Kerman province. The way the inner blue border projects in regular fashion into the red field tilts the question towards an Afshar source.

Rich
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Old September 14th, 2018, 02:10 PM   #5
Wendy Dunleavy
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Default Thank you

Thank you Rich. I have a whole bunch of beautiful rugs. Is it ok if I keep posting? I've never been in a forum before. I am really keen to learn more about these beautiful pieces.
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Old September 14th, 2018, 02:28 PM   #6
Wendy Dunleavy
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Any idea of it's age? The vivid pinks and purples suggest that, although vintage, it is relatively modern. What sort of value can I put on it? Did you notice the raised tufts and multicoloured binding on the salvage edges?
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Old September 14th, 2018, 02:32 PM   #7
Chuck Wagner
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Hi Wendy,

We don't discuss market vales on this forum. That said, this would be considered a decorative rug as opposed to a prized antique, so it's not a retirement plan in the making.

As for age, I would judge it to be, maybe, 1970's-1980's, possibly a bit earlier.

This may be one you wouldn't want to use as an entryway rug in a rainy region; the red dyes on these rugs often run when they get wet.

Regards
Chuck Wagner

Last edited by Chuck Wagner; September 14th, 2018 at 02:50 PM.
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Old September 14th, 2018, 03:37 PM   #8
Steve Price
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy Dunleavy View Post
Thank you Rich. I have a whole bunch of beautiful rugs. Is it ok if I keep posting? I've never been in a forum before. I am really keen to learn more about these beautiful pieces.
Hi Wendy

Sure. Send me the image files first, don't put more than one rug (or type of rug) in the same thread - people lose track of where they are - and don't have more than a few under discussion at the same time (that was the mistake Moses made - he gave the Israelites all ten commandments on the same day, so they didn't remember any of them).

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Old September 14th, 2018, 04:03 PM   #9
Rich Larkin
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Hi Wendy,

I agree with Chuck's comments.

Here is a tip about sizing up the dyes for color-fastness. First, rub a section of the color you want to test vigorously with a damp cloth. An old wash cloth of white cotton works well. If dye transfers onto it, You have your answer. Do not confuse a few strands of migrating wool yarn for running dye.

If the rug passes that test, next, place a swatch of white cotton sheet down on a level surface that can get wet without concern. Put the rug on top of that. Get a small sponge fairly wet with plain tepid water and force the water down through a section of the rug you want to check into the white sheet. Proceed judiciously when doing this, as only a small area of the rug needs to be 'attacked'. Extract the cloth to see if a 'tatoo' in the color of the yarn has appeared on it. If so, bad dye!

This sort of thing may scandalize some, but it should be harmless.

Keep on posting! And welcome!

Rich
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Old September 16th, 2018, 11:16 AM   #10
Wendy Dunleavy
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This is the 2nd batch of many. I am literally swimming in beautiful rugs after buying a few and then inheriting a load from my in-laws. I'm a City and Guilds I and II in fashion and design so textiles REALLY float my boat. Please tell me everything you can about this beauty, origin, age, style, etc. etc. etc. Thank you.







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Old September 16th, 2018, 12:25 PM   #11
Chuck Wagner
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Wendy,

I certainly want to encourage you to learn more about handwoven rugs, and there is ample material available in the archives of Turkotek to assist with that goal.

You will certainly benefit from some time spent on discussions that touch on links between art and craft, vegetal vs synthetic dyes, commercial vs. ethnographic manufacturing, and collectible vs commercial pieces.

I would think that a broader understanding of the traditional methods of preparing and dyeing yarns for weaving would be of interest to anyone with your specific interests, and you can find supporting information here.

So, having said that, the piece that you show in this post, is not something that most members would acquire.

It may be a machine-made rug; it is not possible to tell with certainty from these images. You would have to fold the rug back along a line running left-to-right across the rug and look for knot nodes; if there are none, it is machine made. For an example of how to do this, see this post:

http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00105/tibetan.htm

If it is handmade, I would guess that this was made in Pakistan or Afghanistan quite recently, probably as something to be sold to tourists. It is a commercial piece with harsh synthetic dyes, and poor representations of true Turkman motifs. It isn't a piece that can be attributed to a particular weaving group.

Again, as Rich and I suggested, you may want to test the dyes for water fastness before allowing it to get wet. Dyes that run can transfer to the surface beneath the rug, and can be difficult to remove afterward.

Regards, and keep them coming,
Chuck Wagner
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Old September 16th, 2018, 12:30 PM   #12
Steve Price
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Hi Wendy

Just a piece of advice: start a new discussion thread for each genre that you introduce. Things get messy very fast when discussions of several pieces aren't kept separate.

This one was probably woven some time after WW-II, maybe even in the 21st century. The design and layout are loosely based on Turkmen traditions, but are clearly not Turkmen.

The palette is suggestive of someplace east of Turkmenistan, but except for that I'd guess it to have been woven in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

Regards

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Old September 16th, 2018, 12:51 PM   #13
Wendy Dunleavy
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Thank you guys. Advice on board.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 12:13 PM   #14
Andrew Leng
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Wendy I am sure it is what we in northern UK vernacular call a Hooky rug, Gran made them in the 1950- 60s. They were the successor to the rag rug in front of the fire place. Lengths of wool were hooked into a matrix fabric; I think originally this was just canvas.
The other name is Ready Cut after the company that popularised them by supplying ready cut lengths of wool in handy bundles. Before that you cut the wool to length by wrapping it round a block of wood then cutting one corner. The warp/weft is supplied as a stiff fabric grid and Ready Cut also sold ready printed grids with the pattern on together with the correct packs of wool. We used to have a catalogue. They may still be going. It could become the next craft revival.
Diagnostics: On your pic of the bottom of the rug that white bit at the side is a dense layer of the backing matix. On grans this is neatly folded under and stitched to the back of the rug out of sight.
The scattered white tufts showing near the corner are on two of our heirlooms, if you follow them up your picture they turn into a curling bit on the white matrix side being the end of folded over cut end of the matrix.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 02:06 PM   #15
Steve Price
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Bravo, Andrew! In the US they're called hooked rugs. It's simply a genre that doesn't even cross the minds of most oriental textile nuts, but we've all seen at least a few of them. A Google search for hooked rugs turns up thousands of them, many in quasi-oriental rug designs.

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Old September 18th, 2018, 03:36 PM   #16
Andrew Leng
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Hi Steve
Same problem. At first glance I thought I should know that, then I started thinking of colour and design and forgot by I got to the back of rug pics. It should have clicked then but wrong context. Not till I was walking on them in our utility room did the penny drop.

PS it’s a Turkish knot- symmetrical.

Thinking about it I remember in short pants cutting lengths of wool and even hooking a few knots. Kind of satisfying. Gosh I was a ruggie even then

Last edited by Andrew Leng; September 18th, 2018 at 03:44 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 03:57 PM   #17
Steve Price
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Hi Andrew

Symmetrically knotted? I thought they were just tufted. I guess I'm not too old to find new things to learn.

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Old September 18th, 2018, 06:50 PM   #18
Rich Larkin
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Hi Andrew,

Whoa! I'm with Steve: I did not think that type of rug was knotted. Only tufted, which is to say, yarn shoved through the holes. We must get Wendy to post an image of the pile folded back to expose the bases of the 'knots'.

There is an efficiency to be gained by tufting, but I think manipulating yarn through an already existing matrix becomes counter-productive from the standpoint of the 'weaver'. (I could not bring myself to say 'hooker' )

Rich
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Old September 19th, 2018, 12:20 AM   #19
Andrew Leng
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Rich:
To get a better understanding you can have a demonstration. Start 2min 30 into the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY3z7ltdbOE

http://www.readicut.co.uk/rugs.html

I don’t know how tufting guns work but I think they are different. I think they rely on the tight canvas to hold the tuft.

“There is an efficiency to be gained by tufting” yes but this is a hobby creation not a commercial product.

Last edited by Andrew Leng; September 19th, 2018 at 06:53 AM. Reason: additional info.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 12:53 PM   #20
Rich Larkin
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You are right, Andrew, it comes out as a symmetrical knot with the special hook they use. I have to revise my entire "Rugs 101" speech!

Rich
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