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Go Back   Turkotek Discussion Forums > Mini-Salon 32: Pinner and Franses Revisited: Animal Tree Ensi Research in the Age of the Internet

Mini-Salon 32: Pinner and Franses Revisited: Animal Tree Ensi Research in the Age of the Internet By Chuck Wagner

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Old September 17th, 2017, 06:10 PM   #1
Chuck Wagner
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Default An Ersari (?) Ensi with some interesting motifs

Greetings all

Several years ago (2006) Louis Dubreuil put together an interesting discussion thread on what he thought might be an Uzbek ensi salon, and followed up a couple years later with a Salon discussing the use of the kush motif on ensis.

Links:
http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00039/uzbek_ensi.htm

http://www.turkotek.com/salon_00130/salon.html

Withing the Salon he went into great detail, which I won't try to repeat here - but - I will note that specifics on the type of kush motif on my ensi (below )were sparse. In his earlier discussion, he had identified a couple other pieces that fall into the same general class as this ensi, based on the kush elements and the guard borders:

This example is from Louis' thread is from ORR vol 10, # 6, aug/sept 1990, and is the closest to mine:



I find the nature of the motifs on my piece, and their rendering, to be out of step with my perceptions of size vs. age for ensis. This piece is large for a Turkmen ensi at 81.5 in (207 cm) X 70 in.(178 cm). Yomut pieces are often this large, Tekke generally smaller. Most of the older ensis that I am familiar with (including the animal-tree ensi in the main article) are significantly smaller.

Here are a few images and related comments:

Note that in the center field panels, each panel holds a single kush element, with lots of open space, a characteristic I associate with earlier rather than later pieces. Also note that the kush motif has the birds head style rather than the generally later candelabra style:




Also note that the center panel border and guard border motifs are also typically associated with earlier rather than later pieces. The lateral center panel motifs are outlined with light red:



But the Ersari "start" major border is - in my mind - a later feature:





The colors look good to me, although one could make an argument that the yellow may be a synthetic. The relatively brighter red in the diagonal corners around the stars on the major borders doesn't scare me, but could also be synthetic. Dick Parsons, in a note, commented that it was common for the Turkmen of means to use a light madder red on white or ivory wool, which made a bright but still entirely vegetal red.








Here is a closeup of the back:




Questions I would like to pose are:

Does anyone have more knowledge than I (not a difficult hurdle) regarding the blocky red and white reciprocal "s" border ?

Does anyone have any guesstimates they would care to offer as to which quarter of which century they feel this pieces belongs to ?

Regards
Chuck

Last edited by Chuck Wagner; September 17th, 2017 at 07:44 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 08:30 PM   #2
Chuck Wagner
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Hi

Reviewing both my own copy of ORR, and the Christie's website, I am unable to find any more information on the ensi from Louis' thread, from the September 11 1990 sale of pieces from the Meyer-Muller collection.

Regards
Chuck
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Old October 10th, 2017, 01:46 PM   #3
kabinsons1
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Hi,
The design of rugs what is mentioned in the thread is very sensitive and beautiful. The picture of the rugs are very pretty and the quality are so effected.
Thanks
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Old October 11th, 2017, 02:23 PM   #4
kabinsons1
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Quote:
An Ersari (?) Ensi with some interesting motifs
Greetings all

Several years ago (2006) Louis Dubreuil put together an interesting discussion thread on what he thought might be an Uzbek ensi salon, and followed up a couple years later with a Salon discussing the use of the kush motif on ensis.

Links:
http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00039/uzbek_ensi.htm

http://www.turkotek.com/salon_00130/salon.html

Withing the Salon he went into great detail, which I won't try to repeat here - but - I will note that specifics on the type of kush motif on my ensi (below )were sparse. In his earlier discussion, he had identified a couple other pieces that fall into the same general class as this ensi, based on the kush elements and the guard borders:

This example is from Louis' thread is from ORR vol 10, # 6, aug/sept 1990, and is the closest to mine:



I find the nature of the motifs on my piece, and their rendering, to be out of step with my perceptions of size vs. age for ensis. This piece is large for a Turkmen ensi at 81.5 in (207 cm) X 70 in.(178 cm). Yomut pieces are often this large, Tekke generally smaller. Most of the older ensis that I am familiar with (including the animal-tree ensi in the main article) are significantly smaller.

Here are a few images and related comments:

Note that in the center field panels, each panel holds a single kush element, with lots of open space, a characteristic I associate with earlier rather than later pieces. Also note that the kush motif has the birds head style rather than the generally later candelabra style:




Also note that the center panel border and guard border motifs are also typically associated with earlier rather than later pieces. The lateral center panel motifs are outlined with light red:



But the Ersari "start" major border is - in my mind - a later feature:





The colors look good to me, although one could make an argument that the yellow may be a synthetic. The relatively brighter red in the diagonal corners around the stars on the major borders doesn't scare me, but could also be synthetic. Dick Parsons, in a note, commented that it was common for the Turkmen of means to use a light madder red on white or ivory wool, which made a bright but still entirely vegetal red.








Here is a closeup of the back:




Questions I would like to pose are:

Does anyone have more knowledge than I (not a difficult hurdle) regarding the blocky red and white reciprocal "s" border ?

Does anyone have any guesstimates they would care to offer as to which quarter of which century they feel this pieces belongs to ?

Regards
Chuck

It seems outstanding to me.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 11:16 AM   #5
kabinsons1
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Quote:
I find the nature of the motifs on my piece, and their rendering, to be out of step with my perceptions of size vs. age for ensis. This piece is large for a Turkmen ensi at 81.5 in (207 cm) X 70 in.(178 cm). Yomut pieces are often this large, Tekke generally smaller. Most of the older ensis that I am familiar with (including the animal-tree ensi in the main article) are significantly smaller.
This one is perfect in size but I am not familiar with the large one.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 12:19 PM   #6
Steve Price
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Hi Kabinsons1

I guess you didn't receive the email message I sent you yesterday. It was letting you know that we don't permit the use of pseudonyms on our forums, and asked that you send me (sprice@vcu.edu) your full name so I can make that your user name.

Please do that before posting again.

Thanks.

Steve Price
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