The "Baluch Dating Game", reprised

[James Blanchard]

Hello all,

Turkotek "old-timers" (including me) might recall a thread 15 years ago focusing on dating Baluch rugs, particularly in reference to some examples of Baluch rugs with in-woven dates from Frank Diehr and Bob Kent. The thread can still be found in the Turkotek archive, here: http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00061/dating.htm

I recently acquired a Baluch rug with a field design ("keshmeri") and border pattern that are typically attributed to the "Salar Khan" tribe of NE Persia.

This rug is 68 x 38 inches in dimension, with a very fine, small-scale pattern. It is very finely knotted for a Baluch rug (approx. 16v x 15h = 240 kpsi, asymmetric, open-right). The wool is very fine. Warps are ivory wool, with two fine brown wool weft threads per row of knots. Alternate warps are slightly depressed. The pile wool is fine and lustrous and the handle is quite supple, but the back has a bit of dry feel.

Colours are a range of madder, with some light roses. There is also a light, buttery yellow.

The rug has an in-woven date (twice), and another inscription that I am unable to decipher. The date seems to be clearly 125_, which would translate to Gregorian calendar date in the 1830s.

That seems to be a very early date for a Baluch rug, but this rug does seem older than a 4th-5th quarter of the 19th century. The drawing is finer and more precise than most Salar Khan examples I have seen. The knotting is also finer than most Baluch rugs - only small pieces / trappings tend to have knotting that dense.

I've posted a few pictures below, and would welcome thoughts and comments about the rug, the dating / age, and of course, other analogies.

Cheers,

James

https://live.staticflickr.co m/65535/51425775712_d08f8365 f5_c.jpg

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https://live.staticflickr.co m/65535/51427292894_b2c861b0 4a_z.jpg

[Frank Martin Diehr]

Dear James

Good to hear from you, and congrats to bagging that exceptional rug!

This is one of the best Salar Khani keshmiri type rugs I have ever seen, regardless of its in-woven dates and inscription. Generally speaking, that type of rug is none of my favourites, most of the numerous fifth quarter examples are, i.m.h.o., stiff and repetitive.

Decent tribal looking fourth quarter rugs, bags and saddle covers turn up occasionally, but the example you got is surely among the best of type, and the date and inscription are an added bonus. A date of around 1830, which I find plausible, makes it one of the very few ‘documented’ early Baluchis, and as with the dated minah khani rug we discussed back then (it belonged to Bob Kent) it is a rare and important piece. Please refer to the archived thread.

Those two rugs merit a deeper discussion and comparison. They both show an early, already refined and well executed version of standard designs in the ‘Baluch tradition’, and are by no means at the starting point of that design pool. Which prompts the question:

How much older than the given dates are those two distinctly different tribal design pools (of different Baluch groups), and what can we infer from that on other, well established design pools in the Baluch tradition that we have not yet found any dated examples (e.g. the chicken bag of the animal tree bag faces)?

Any ideas out there?

Kind regards

Frank

[James Blanchard]

Dear Frank,

Thanks for the thoughtful and informative reply. It's great to hear from you.

I was always a bit skeptical about the tendency to date every reasonably old-seeming Baluch rug to one time period (late 19th / early 20th). Perhaps that reflects production volume, but I've wondered if there might be older examples lurking.

Like you, I haven't generally been drawn to most Salar Khani "keshmeri" rugs, but this seems more fluid and refined - the sort of "drawing" I attribute to an experienced weaver steeped in tradition. That combined with the very fine knotting, and fine materials, makes it seem of a different category than most of the other Baluch rugs I own, or have encountered. Though it clearly has condition issues, it presents very well and I'm looking forward to finding a perfect section of wall for its display.

When I have a bit more time, I hope to pull in some Salar Khan examples from public sources to look for similarities and differences, so that we might perhaps articulate some bases for at least some notional chronology.

Cheers,

James

[James Blanchard]

Hi all,

As a next step in the discussion, below is an example of another dated Salar Khan rug with the "keshmeri" pattern. The date on this one translates to 1897 (I believe). I found it in the archives from past auctions at an auction house, and I am not aware if it is on the market currently.

In any case, comparing this dated example to mine in the original post, it does seem that there has been considerable change in the drawing and palette.

James

https://live.staticflickr.co m/65535/51439100127_c4294bb8 92_c.jpg

[James Blanchard]

Well, this thread seems to have gone over like a lead balloon, so I'll try not to extend it unnecessarily.

First, I wanted to embed a picture of Bob Kent's dated mina khani rug (dated 1230 = 1815). Compared to other rugs in that genre, I can certainly see how it would be at the very early end of the published examples that I've seen.

http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00061/dating_files/DSCN0505.jpg

Third, I wanted to focus specifically on the fineness of the knotting in my "keshmeri" example. Looking through the various resources I have seen, I haven't found any rug examples that approach the knot density. Generally, the top end of knot density for published Baluch rugs tend to be in the range of 150 kpsi (about 2300-2400 knots per square dm). My rug is in the range of 240 kpsi (3700 knots per square dm), and when I compare the fineness of the warps to other "old" NE Persian rugs, there is almost no comparison --- much finer. It would be very interesting to know the context and organization of weaving of such a fine rug in the "Baluch tradition". Was it just a very fine dowry piece? Was it part of a more organized weaving ecosystem? Also, when and why might have the quality / fineness of weaving declined, along with simplification / degradation of design / drawing?

Here is an example of what has been described as a "2nd half 19th century" Salar Khani saddle. It is finely woven and nicely drawn, but to me it shows some signs of "degradation" of drawing compared to my example. But perhaps I am over-reading into this.

https://live.staticflickr.co m/65535/51499980113_e5dff58c 6d_b.jpg

James

[Joel Greifinger]

Hi James,

First, I wanted to embed a picture of Bob Kent's dated mina khani rug (dated 1230 = 1815).
Third, I wanted to focus specifically on the fineness of the knotting in my "keshmeri" example.

Was there a second point?

It would be very interesting to know the context and organization of weaving of such a fine rug in the "Baluch tradition". Was it just a very fine dowry piece? Was it part of a more organized weaving ecosystem? Also, when and why might have the quality / fineness of weaving declined, along with simplification / degradation of design / drawing?

Agreed, it would be very interesting. But, it has become obvious that the necessary evidence doesn't seem to be available to generate even well-informed speculation about much of 'Baluch' weaving history. :cry:

Joel

[James Blanchard]

I think the second point was going to be about drawing. :confused:

You may be correct, and there is no way to fathom or trace the earlier history of the Baluch weaving tradition, with few examples of rugs that seem perhaps substantially older than the latter part of the 19th century.

Cheers,

James

[Paul Smith]

I had some memory of having posted in response to your archaic proto-Salar Khani rug, which I think is excellent, but I am not surprised to think that I am losing my mind. I thought the case for it being among the "Old Baluchis" was legit. But I'm sorry to see that I don't see my reply here, and yet again I have failed on the interwebs. I thought that it was of the ilk of the ex-Michael Phillps rug we see here from time to time, dated to 1805 or whatever we thought it was actually dated to. I think your rug is an awesome find.

That said, the Bob Kent example seems to me to be evidence of a weaver who had no idea what the date was, and is mostly irrelevant to your piece. I think that Bob Kent's is obviously second-half 19th-century, and I say that because I think I have one of the oldest of this sort of Baluch "Qarai" Mina Khani kelleh-type rugs, based on the wealth of detail (even bird/deer at either end in the field), special materials (camel, magenta silk), elaborate kilim ends, size, color, and drawing. I also think there are earlier Baluch-group Mina Khanis, like Rich Larkin's killer example, the Wher carpet, etc., which may indeed be early 19th-century, or earlier... but I would venture that mine is hands-down earlier than the Bob Kent example, and I think mine is mid-19th-century. Your rug seems to be earlier than that, IMO.

https://i.postimg.cc/DwyLSGmy/QaraiMK.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[James Blanchard]

Thanks for the thoughts Paul, and for sharing that magnificent mina khani rug. I would agree that it is a real masterpiece in that genre, which I usually ascribe to an earlier timeframe in the evolution of a design pool / rug type.

I'm not sure what to think of Bob Kent's version. It seems almost like another design pool than yours, and maybe not even a direct descendant. If it is part of the same lineage, then I would agree that yours seems earlier and more refined.

At the risk of being repetitive, here is another version of the mina khani, but perhaps from another lineage (Timuri?). Note the inclusion of animals / birds in the design, which echoes the design of your rug.

https://live.staticflickr.co m/5044/5320217205_63760bb42 8_z.jpg

In any case, your rug certainly seems in the "best of class" rank.

Thanks for sharing.

James

[Chuck Wagner]

James

...not so much a lead balloon...

Patience.

Regards
Chuck

[Chuck Wagner]

So, James,

I like that rug. A Persian Herati field, a middle border motif typically found on Tekke work, as I recall, and an outer border reminiscent of Kurdish work. What a nice hodgepodge.

Maybe it's the images, but the red seems oddly subdued to me - yet it works well with the overall palette.

It took me a while to remember where I saw the nomenclature on these:

Wegner, in the Oriental Rug Review.

OK, I know that some roll their eyes :rolleyes: at the mention of Wegner but that fact is that he did get quite a bit right, even though his errors got more attention.

Anyway.

Tom Cole has some of Wegner's material on his site, in his Articles section, including these three, oldest to youngest (by Wegner's judgement):

http://www.tcoletribalrugs. com/resources/Wegner/weg19.jpg
Fig. 19. Salar-Khani Balouch, Djulghe Khaf, "keshmiri" pattern, c. 1900.


http://www.tcoletribalrugs. com/resources/Wegner/weg17.jpg
Fig. 17. Said-Mohammad-Khani Balouch, Djulghe Khaf, "keshmiri" pattern, c. 1920.


http://www.tcoletribalrugs. com/resources/Wegner/weg20.jpg
Fig, 20. Said-Mohammad-Khani Balouch, Djulghe Khaf, "keshmiri" pattern, c. 1930

In traditional Wegnerian fashion the last two motifs are given the same name....

Here is the link to that web page:
http://www.tcoletribalrugs. com/article9baluch.html

And as it happens, we own one of these, a la the third, which I liked because of the Khufesque (you had to be in that exhausting thread to get that reference :)) border, unusual on Baluch work outside this very distinct nearby-the-border weaving milieux:


http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/KhuficSK02.jpg


Regards
Chuck

[Frank Martin Diehr]

Hi all

First let me reiterate that I think James` dated rug is outstanding in Baluch collecting terms. I have not handled it. When it came up, the only reason I did not go for it was that I had promised myself to cut down on the habit.
The rug seems structurally very different from the multitude of late (no older than 1900 Id say) stiff and rigid commercial rugs of Salar Khani design that we see, they are a different kettle of fish. I would put the examples Wegner referred to into that commercial category. (I went to see him and part of his collection in the early 90s, and seem to recall he had a dated one, early 20th century, I`d have to go back to my notes to check it out.)

Even the saddle cover, which I think is a good, typical tribal example of the Salar Khani design pool (and which I would date to the last quarter 19th century, and of which type I have a few myself), seems structurally different from James` dated rug.

Obvious design similarities do not necessarily create a lineage, but might indicate part of a web, as can be seen in the vast structural differences in Baluch animal tree bag faces that all share a common design composition.
Id also like to reiterate that age does not equal quality, and that design evolution does not run in straight parallel lines over a vast area and great length of time. I think you now my drift, it has been pointed out many times before.
I handled Bob Kents` rug, he actually lent it to me form some months, and comparing it to Paul`s excellent example and to decide on design comparison alone that it cannot be older (despite its in-woven date) is something I cannot follow. Yes, Paul`s rug looks the better designed and executed in the western collectors' judgement, but why would that mean the less well designed rug cannot be older?

Anyway, that Michael Phillips dated rug seems to have slipped my mind, can anyone provide a photo?

Kind regards

Frank

[James Blanchard]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Let me respond to a couple of points. First, with regard to structure, the very obvious difference between this dated Salar Khani and other "Khorassan Baluch" rugs is the fineness of weave. As noted in a few publications, the very "fine" Baluch rugs are up to 3000 knots per square dm. My dated Salar Khani rug is around 3700 kpsd. Below are some pictures showing a relatively fine "Khorassan Baluch" rug, that is about 2000 knots per square dm (10h x 12-13v knots per inch = 125 kpsi). I've showed it side-by-side with the Salar Khan, and it is evident how much finer the weave is. Notice also the comparison of the fineness of the weft threads. They seem impossibly fine on the Salar Khan. As a result, the handle of the Salar Khan is much lighter / finer than the "fine" Khorassan Baluch rugs I have handled (admittedly, not nearly as many as you have). I am not sure that is a clear indication of relative age, but the fineness of the knotting certainly stands apart.

Second, I think you make a good point about being a bit cautious about putting Baluch rugs that have a similar design (e.g. Mina Khani) into a single chronology, since the design might have a few genealogy trees, perhaps emerging in different regions. Certainly, Paul's example seems at the apex of quality for that genre, but perhaps Bob Kent's comes from a different pool (as does my Timuri).

James

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[Joel Greifinger]

Anyway, that Michael Phillips dated rug seems to have slipped my mind, can anyone provide a photo?


Hi Frank,

https://i.postimg.cc/tgDy4Vn7/IMG-0044.jpg

Joel

[James Blanchard]

Hi Frank,

https://i.postimg.cc/tgDy4Vn7/IMG-0044.jpg

Joel

Thanks for posting, Joel.

A remarkable rug.

It looks like an ancient progenitor with a strong Afshar vibe. What was the in-woven date?

James

[Frank Martin Diehr]

Hi All

All right, thaaaat one.

Isn't that the rug that was found and published by Michael Craycraft, not Phillips, in an older issue of Hali in the early 90s (IIRC)? If I had the time, I'd dig it up from the library. It does not just remind us of some Afshar motifs, but also the "Arab Baluch" quartered moon.

There was a brief dicussion with it. Perhaps a third specimen to include into a dicussion of early dated "Baluch" rugs?

Kind regards

Frank

[James Blanchard]

Hi All

All right, thaaaat one.

Isn't that the rug that was found and published by Michael Craycraft, not Phillips, in an older issue of Hali in the early 90s (IIRC)? If I had the time, I'd dig it up from the library. It does not just remind us of some Afshar motifs, but also the "Arab Baluch" quartered moon.

There was a brief dicussion with it. Perhaps a third specimen to include into a dicussion of early dated "Baluch" rugs?

Kind regards

Frank

I did find this one in the Hali archives...

Said to have a "semi-legible" date of 1214 AH (1798 AD). Note that this rug has a cotton foundation, which would suggest to me an Afshar lineage.

So, now do we have at least three design branches extended back to the first half of the 19th century or earlier?

1) Fine Khorassan (Salar Khan)?
2) Mina Khani (Bob Kent version)?
3) Early Afshar / Arab Baluch?

https://live.staticflickr.co m/65535/51523959968_5d9ede7a 8b_o.jpg

[Joel Greifinger]

Isn't that the rug that was found and published by Michael Craycraft, not Phillips, in an older issue of Hali in the early 90s (IIRC)?

Hi Frank,

The one that I posted was sold by Michael Phillips on eBay to John Taylor in June, 2007. In a discussion on the "Baluch Studies" Facebook group, this was his comment about it, "It was Persian knotted I think, very limp and soft and shiny. It felt very old, probably due to use. A date of 1805 is hardly credible."

In April, 2018, also on "Baluch Studies", Ben Banayan said that he had also owned the rug and believed the date read '1905' not '1805' and that it contained some fuchsine.

Joel

[Frank Martin Diehr]

Hi Joel

Thanks for the photo - I was indeed not aware of that Michael Phillips rug and the disussion.

Hi James

Thanks for digging up the Michael Craycraft rug. In the back of my mind, I remembered it as having an Afshar look, yet seemingly woven distinctly in the Baluch Tradition. I have not seen the rug or a close-up of the date in person, but have spoken and listened to Michael Cracraft often (he was part of our Baluch collectors group) and highly value his opinions on Baluch weavings.

So, a third Baluch rug with an early date. What to make of them?

Frank

[Chuck Wagner]

James,

Looking at a doubled-up copy of that last image from the Hali archives, I can find several religious invocations in Arabic script, but I don't see anything resembling a date.

Do you have any suggestion regarding where to look, on that piece ?

Regards
Chuck