A Boteh a Day Keeps the Covid Away

[Dinie Gootjes]

That is a majestic bag face, Joel, and so well drawn too!

[Patrick Weiler]

Jim,
Very unusual bagface. Can't really see the soumak on the ends, though. From my lounge chair, of course.
:rolleyes:
Joel, those aren't botehs. They are "bobble-headed parallelograms". That's a different Show and Tell thread altogether.
:pie:
Here is an actual boteh design piece. An entire rug which not only contains botehs, but is actually named after them; a so-called Boteh Khila Baku Shirvan rug. The sainted, long deceased Rug Nomenclature Moderators gave out extra names for rug designs which caught their attention.
I am somewhat reticent to share this particular rug on Turkotek. I wouldn't want anyone to think that I have a few rugs which aren't threadbare, beat up, tattered, worn and decrepit. I have a reputation to uphold.
:monalisa:
The color reproduction is questionable, mostly because this is hammered to the wall in a dark corner with several auxiliary lighting devices being shined on it to make it bright enough to photograph. The yellow areas are all the same color in real life - a pale/pastel wheatstraw yellow that is fairly close to the close-up picture in the center of the boteh below. On my monitor, the yellow color in each corner section appears to be an entirely different color - but they are actually identical. Notice that the basic form of the botehs and the carnation borders are similar to the bagface Lloyd posted earlier - with the insides of some of the botehs having mini-botehs in side of them.

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/PAT_W_boats1.jpg

The various colored wool has worn at different rates. The maroon is the lowest, yellow next, black next, the red slightly and the white and blues the least. It makes for a very 3-dimensional effect. The red ground is uncommon in this type. For being over a hundred years old, it is in pretty good condition - for my collection anyway. I was told by the dealer I bought it from that it was sold to him by the granddaughter of the previous owner. She said he kept it and a few other rugs stored in the basement because no one in the family liked them. She had never seen them in use her entire life. This was way back in the last century. He was obviously an embarrassed "enthusiastic accumulator".

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/PAT_W_booteh5.jpg

The sizes and shapes of the botehs change randomly and the handful of playful motifs scattered about adds a bit of whimsy.

Patrick Weiler

[Chuck Wagner]

Pat,

Meh....

a mid 20th century piece portraying current popular material culture:

https://militaryantiquesmuse um.com/img/Thumb10960.jpg

:pie:

Regards,
Chuck

[Filiberto Boncompagni]

:rolleyes: Hi Chuck,


Nothing new under the Turkotekkian sun...

http://www.turkotek.com/mini_salon_00029/2_copters_guns.jpg

http://www.turkotek.com/mini_salon_00029/salon.html

[Joel Greifinger]

Joel, those aren't botehs. They are "bobble-headed parallelograms".

Pat,

Them's fighting words :duel::duel:
And, clearly its been a long time since high school geometry. Parallelograms are four-sided figures with parallel opposite sides. These are irregular hexagons that just fortuitously happen to look like bobble-heads. :laughing_2:

Joel

[Chuck Wagner]

Alrighty then,

Jim,

Beyond the lateral stripes in the border I can't explain exactly why, but that has a Veramin feel to me. An attractive little bag.

Joel,

A remarkable, big bag. And even more so your earlier "mystery bags".
We should see if they will both fit in the trunk of my car, next time at rug club...

Back to grenade bags...

Here's one from - I dunno where. So it goes in the somewhere-in-Persia generalization bin. Maybe Dr. Weiler can make a diagnosis. I really like the way the weaver fattened things up in order to get the offset knot effect.

Note the small shifts in pattern fill and endpoint motifs on the grenade safety levers:

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/aP1040691.jpg



http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/aP1040727.jpg



http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/aP1040709.jpg



http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/aP1040710.jpg

Regards
Chuck

[Patrick Weiler]

Chuck,
That hand grenade is chock full of synthetics. Just sayin'.
:vomit:
My take on your boteh bag is Luri. It has the common back-to-back-C Khamseh border, but the more free-form construction, and the fantastic colors and wool and the dark/mixed warps give it a Luri look to me. The diagonal, rolling downhill rosettes in the upper right add a charming movement to the design.

Joel, I still say your botehs are parallelograms, just "irregular" parallelograms.
:)
On the other hand, notice that inside those botehs there are "regular" parallelograms. So what you have is the well-known "Irregular Hexagon Mother and Parallelogram Daughter Boteh" design.
:clap:
Jim, your bagface is mysterious. The cotton warps might argue for a village source, though cotton was somewhat widespread in Persia. "In the course of the 19th century cultivation of cotton was observed by travelers in many parts of Persia, from Azerbaijan to Khorasan and eastern Māzandarān, as well as in the central regions around Yazd, Kā?ān, Kermān, and Qom."

Here is another mysterious piece. It has been inspected by a few respected rug folks, none of whom could assign a source for it. I was told by James Opie that it definitely was not SW Persian or Khamseh.

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/PAT_W_mishmash.jpg

Now, some of you may say "Botehs", what botehs? Well, Chuck :laughing_1: if you look at the very bottom of these diagonal columns, they begin as botehs. Then they grab each other by the bo-tail and form a conga line!
The basic structure is 17" x 18" 43x46cm with 64kpsi 8x8 symmetric knots with mostly depressed warps. It has mixed dark wool warps. Then it gets interesting. There are anywhere from two to as many as four wefts - some as "extra wefts" which do not extend the entire width of the piece that can be seen in the next picture of the back, in the upper right corner - ostensibly to "straighten" the design - though it is already anything but straight. The wefts in the top half are all medium-brown wool, but in the lower half the flat weave is a stripe of blue wefts then red wefts then the first half dozen pile rows are of camel wool wefts. Then several rows of blue, then light brown then blue then a longer stretch of dark brown and ending about halfway up with maroon wefts. The two cord selvage is overcast by the ground wefts so it is easy to see where the weft colors change. I count at least twelve distinct colors.

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/PAT_W_mishmashback1. jpg

The camel wool and irregular structure are often considered to be a Shahsavan attribute, but I haven't seen anything like this attributed to them - or for that matter to any particular group - though some Caucasian groups dabble in diagonal designs - as well as the SW Persian "cane" design, but that is more or less exclusively a small-pattern red/white version.
Any guesses?
:felix:
Patrick Weiler

[Dinie Gootjes]

Pat, I have no idea about your khorjin, but Tanavoli in his Varamin book shows at least two khorjin with symmetrical knots and a diagonal design.

https://i.postimg.cc/wTYrQ8v3/Tanavoli-Varamin16.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/1Xsp4HmR/Tanavoli-Varamin13.jpg

[Jim Miller]

So, here is an off-the-wall, heretical idea. All this sheltering in place has allowed my mind to wander into surreal landscapes.

I have been thinking of the wide array of motifs that inhabit the interiors of botehs, from empty spaces with just an outline sometimes found in Baluch rugs to simple geometric devices, as in the bag I posted earlier, to geometric flowers, on to ornate floral sprays in some Persian rugs.

I have this (debatably) shahsavan pile bag face with what I thought was a 3 meandering vines in the field adorned with various motifs. But the second row, always reminded me of the common flower motif with a wide base (see Patrick?s post 27 and Chuck?s post 21), often seen in botehs from SW Persia.

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/jim4.jpg

So I was struck when Patrick posted his bag where what starts as individual botehs, make contact, and eventually morph into a wandering vine. I suspect the wandering vine is as ancient a device as the boteh, but it does beg the question -
when does a string of botehs become a wandering vine?

I will be returning to earth sometime in the near future (or so I hope)
Jim

[Joel Greifinger]

But the second row, always reminded me of the common flower motif with a wide base (see Patrick?s post 27 and Chuck?s post 21), often seen in botehs from SW Persia.

Hi Jim,

What the motifs in that row remind me of, if you flip them 180 degrees, is this shrub that's widely used in Kurdish weaving:

https://i.postimg.cc/wB9pVzsb/IMG-0469.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/CKJVr2GM/jim4.jpg

Joel

[Chuck Wagner]

Pat,

I would have placed your latest bag in the Caucasus - maybe Gendje ?

Jim,

What a very attractive bag ! The weaver was having some fun, varying the motifs along and inside the curls of the vine.

But I think Joel's notion is on-target; the central curve is a vine and not the outer edge of proto-botehs.

Regards
Chuck

[Filiberto Boncompagni]

Chuck.
I would have placed your latest bag in the Caucasus - maybe Gendje ?

Like this (Gans-Ruedin page 164-165)?

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/Gans-Ruedin_pg164.jpg


Or perhaps like this Karabagh (Kaffel plate 27)?


http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/Kaffel_27_pg71.jpg

But I think Joel is right, the devices inside the vines/meanders looks more like Kurdish shrubs rather than botehs...
:cheers:

Filiberto

[Chuck Wagner]

Hi Filiberto,

Actually I was thinking about Pat's bag and this style, which - from the appearance of the back of his - seems to fit with other pieces typically attributed to the Gendje district, or more specifically, to the Shahsevan:

http://www.turkotek.com/mini_salon_00021/ms21t3_files/sh22.jpg

And thanks for the other examples of the vines; now I don't have to find my own, buried somewhere in The Other Rug Bunker....

Regards
Chuck

[Filiberto Boncompagni]

Right. Sorry Chuck, I overlooked the "Pat".
And the last part of your post... :flush:
It happens when you read a post early in the morning and answer to it late in the afternoon.

Filiberto

[Patrick Weiler]

Filiberto, you mentioned that "...I overlooked the "Pat".
:(
Story of my life.

Dinie, I looked at the Varamin book and the similarity is superficial.
:)
Story of my life.

Chuck,
That Shahsavan/Genje bag does have a "look" like it may be related to my diagonally striped bag.
Like I'm related to George Washington's wife.
:laughing_2:
Which, family lore says, I am! So, I will tentatively call it a Shahsavan/Genje.

As for botehs, they are sometimes the basic motif in a rug, but quite often they are relegated to mere minor status; an afterthought, a trifle, a throwaway that is used only as a bangle, bauble or accessory on an otherwise splendid outfit.
Here is just such a use. There are a dozen botehs scattered (but symmetrically) on the outer field and 10 on the large inner field of this small rug. It is 32" x 48" 82x122cm. It has 9x9 asymmetric, open left knots with no warp depression, which gives the rug a flexible handle and which also, due to being equal in size and shape, allow for the designs to be square or round rather than rectangular or oval. The warps are light brown/white wool and the two wefts are quite dark brown.
I have always called it a Khamseh rug, but it has none of the tribal, rural attributes of rustic appearance, heavy, coarse wool or unrefined design. We are fairly sure, though, that many Khamseh weavers were settled and may have been the ones who wove the grand "palace-size" Khamseh carpets for the wealthy Shiraz governors and leaders. This one has soft, fine wool, deeply saturated colors, flexible handle and light weight.

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/PAT_W_boat1.jpg

The full photo doesn't quite do justice, as it is hanging in a dark corner, but the close up is pretty close. That's why it's called a close up.
:laughing_1:
The outer field is a slightly reddish-brown, though the lower halves of the bottom "spandrels" is an actual red - halfway up it turns into a browner shade. The field color of the very large medallion is a deep blue.

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/PAT_W_boat2.jpg

The close shot shows two of the more elaborate botehs. And also one of the 10 birds of simple design on the rug. There are also two quadrupeds that look like foxes or dogs to either side of the latchhook medallion in the center.
A very refined and elegant little rug all in all.

Patrick Weiler

[Filiberto Boncompagni]

Hi Pat,

As I had mentioned already when you sent me the photos for uploading...

Those are no Botehs! :errormonkey:

Filiberto

[Chuck Wagner]

Hi,

....and might I add, they are in stark contrast to the easily recognizable multi-color hand grenades hanging from the vine in Filiberto's second example...

Great example, Filiberto... :cheers:

Regards
Chuck

[Patrick Weiler]

:duel:
To boteh or not to boteh, that is the question.
Which was already answered, to no protest, back in post #18 by Dinie Gootjes, who described them as "less fashionable boteh".
Discrimination against diminutive devices is deplorable!
Boteh ad hominem attacks are not permitted!
:madgo::battle: :devil:
Botehs of all sizes, shapes and styles should be equally appreciated.
:)
Patrick Weiler

[Joel Greifinger]

Boteh ad hominem attacks are not permitted!
Botehs of all sizes, shapes and styles should be equally appreciated.


I hope it will not be interpreted as intolerant 'boteh-normativity' if I post this piece with unambiguous botehs. :rolleyes:

https://i.postimg.cc/R0LdKf5Y/DSC-0206.jpg

This is a complete Afshar double chanteh. It's 31" long and 11.5" wide (79 x 29cm). Each of the bags are 9.5" x 11.5".
https://i.postimg.cc/SRJfBv20/DSC-0207.jpg

It has seen a good deal of use. The sides of the middle section with the weft-substitution designs have the remnants of having been covered with leather. And, if you look on the left side , there is the remains of a small attached leather belt.

https://i.postimg.cc/kMpcQqz7/DSC-0210.jpg

Given the size and construction, it would seem that this would have been used for different purposes than most chantehs. Was it a pair of saddlebags on a small domestic animal, like a dog perhaps?

The back:
https://i.postimg.cc/L5w323LJ/DSC-0217.jpg

I can only recall seeing one other somewhat similar Afshar double chanteh. That one lacked the long middle section. It was part of the John Corwin Afshar collection that was featured at the 1990 ICOC in San Francisco:

https://i.postimg.cc/LX4TTXm8/DSC-0218.jpg

Joel

[Patrick Weiler]

Joel,
Fantastic little bag. That leather belt may have been to attach the bag to a saddle.
The botehs remind me of this well-traveled piece which I dragged over from the Threadbare Dare page. It also has a wave border similar to your Afshar piece, but with offset knots it likely comes from a different source. It also has both blue and white cotton in the pile and for a section of the wefts, too.

http://www.turkotek.com/show_and_tell/PAT_W_bootsa.jpg

Maybe it is the fact that the botehs on my small rug in post #55 are recumbent botehs which so strongly affects the sensibilities of some of our more sensitive members.
:banghead:
Patrick Weiler